Sorry.. but I can't believe that anyone would recommend my son take treatment if he doesn't have to. It might be we won't be able to get around it but I'm not going to just forget it and put up my hands, they won!

So, he goes to federal prison at the age of 21 for doing nothing, spends 26 months there, is now on the registry and for the next year he'll have to go to treatment and sit there every week for an hour and 'pretend' he likes to masturbate to children, when he doesn't and take a poly and not pass it.. just because the PO is wrong.

and I'm not supposed to hire a lawyer and try to get what the federal judge said he's to do, done. Are we all sheep?

There are those of us who are fighting back. Some don't want to. But we've given in enough. My son doesn't want to go, he knows not to piss of the PO. He knows how to tippy toe around things and we'll do it quiet as we can and pull back if we have to, but just to throw up our arms and go with it... that's what they want us to do.

A little push back when it's appropriate, and court ordered..

If we could do that. If we could have 1 win wouldn't it help others as well?

My son and I aren't stupid about this. We've been thru hell and are still here. Don't assume we're stupid enough to put him back in.

Nakohichi, I do agree with what you said, sheep, yes that is what many have become, it is also why so many restrictions are allowed to be put in place.

There will be hazards fighting the Pos, you just have to decide if it is worth it.

I have seen POs do just about what ever they wanted too, but some offenders did lawyer up and won, had their restrictions changed to a more sensible approach, but it is a very dangerous game to piss off a PO unless you have a good case.

I hope you can work this out for your son, many times when a person is placed in treatment they end up being there for many years just for the only reason it is a revenue stream for the treatment provider,

Regards

buildingupslow

I think one of the issues with these POs is that they're not used to people having money for a lawyer and it freaks them out. We saw a lawyer tonight and after looking at all my son's paperwork he said it's plain as day that the judge gave my son Mental heath program and not SO treatment. He's going to file with the courts. He will not contact the PO.
My son Is complying and is starting treatment tomorrow.. and he'll keep going until the judge here in PA will verify that the federal judge in Floriduh plainly spelt out.
The lawyer said if the PO wants to argue he can go in front of the judge an argue.. if the judge says No treatment.. the treatment will stop. If he says that he takes it , then my son will take it.

If my son goes to treatment he won't pass any of their tests. He's not going to lie more just to make them happy. He'll skirt the issue but he won't say he's into kids. I've spoken with his therapist twice and I have a feeling.. hopefully I'm right... that he will understand my son's case an it won't be a problem.

Just got an email from our Miami attorney. He sent us this and told me to take it to the POs supervisor. We're going to clarify it here first and then maybe take that route. I've blocked out a few things.
I didn't have this before so it's just more of a help.


*CORRECTED JUDGMENT as to (my sons name** ***) on Count 1 - Imprisonment: 30 months - Court recommends that deft. be incarcerated within the State of Florida. Supervised release: 15 years; Mandatory drug testing requirements are imposed. Special conditions of supervised release: Participate in a program for mental health treatment to include polygraph testing and contribute to the costs of the program; Register with the state sexual offender registration agency in any state you reside, visit, are employed, etc.; Register as a sexual offender under (SORNA); No direct contact with minors and refrain from entering into any area where children frequently congregate; Do not possess, subscribe to or view any video, magazines, or literature depicting children in the nude and/or in sexually explicit positions; Do not possess or use a computer with access to any online service at any location without written approval from the probation officer; Permit routine inspection of your computer system, hard drives, etc.; Submit to a search of your person, residence, place of business, etc.; Cooperate in the collection of DNA. Fine: Waived; Special assessment: $100.00; Forfeiture pursuant to the plea agreement. Deft. is remanded to the custody of the U.S. Marshal. *Corrected to remove the condition of supervised release that defendant participate in sexual offender mental health treatment. Signed by Judge J**** *** on **/**/20**. CTP(DJD)

Cool rich.. you brought the supervisor a couple of times. Do you think if we went straight to him this would be the best way to go? I don't know which would puss the PO off more. If I could do it tomorrow maybe my son wouldn't have to go to treatment tomorrow night. I'll talk to my son in the morning about it

We went through similar. After getting a ruling (whole list of things both sides spent months agreeing on), the DOC tried to insist on something else. We paid $200 for copies of the court proceedings and the attorney took it back to the judge/court, who enforced the original ruling. And even if we agreed with the DOC, I was told that it has to come from the court.

Nako,
Go to the PO with the information from the court. If he still insists on the treatment, go to his supervisor.
I just found it interesting that 2 of my POs are now supervisors. One makes sense. The other, not so much.

We already gave him the clarification from FLoriduh. So we're getting it clarified here in PA as well. And then we'll take it to the PO.. who will be pissed off again, I'm sure.

POs generally do not like to be questioned. Most have a God complex. Besides, when he is challenged and loses, it reflects in his reviews. This will put your son on his radar for a bit. He will eventually learn not to mess with you.
All of my POs were afraid of my wife.

Yeah, go your wife!

Nak I hope you don't think that I believe you shouldn't fight, but don't want you to forget that the fight could cost freedom in an instant. And we all know that you don't want to see him going anywhere. Play their game by their rules and win, going to the supervisor like coolrich suggested and having your son do it, would be the 'appropriate' way, that will also reflect badly on the PO if/when the supervisor corrects the issue.

You state that the PO works for the DOJ, but don't they work for the BOP, granted they are a part of the DOJ but still their own entity, I wonder how much autonomy they have to inflict their own policy over and above the court orders, like many state DOCs can do?

I don't know what DOJ or DOC is so I can't reply.

Again,.. You're acting as if we're idiots. and we're not sheep either. Your situation is different than ours and you live in a different state. I don't know what else to tell you.

DOJ = Department of Justice (of the US)
DOC = Department of Corrections (usually a state entity depending on the state)
BOP = Bureau of Prisons (of the US)

I do not believe you are idiots and I am sorry if you are taking it that way. I believe that you are right, that you do have reason to be upset and that you have grounds to get an attorney to get this straightened out. But there is the head on way to fight and there are more subtle ways that garner the same results and not possibly end up in jail even temporarily on a whim of the PO.

I also don't think you are sheep either... sheep would never question the things you question...

If I am right, the Probation offices are part of the Department of Justice in the Federal system. That is why their offices are in the same buildings as the courts. Strangely enough, pre-trial services is usually in the same building as the Federal prosecutors. At least in Philly.
Federal POs are less likely to lock up a "client" on a whim than the state POs. The last thing they want to do is piss off a Federal Judge since they are in the same group. They are also more likely to allow multiple infractions before violating someone for the same reason.
The Federal Probation Office also does the pre-sentencing report, or PSR, for the Judges. This gives the point level and sentence range.

There is a ton of good information here.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_32
and here.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/search/site/federal%20supervised%20release

As a general rule probation is one thing the Feds get "right". There's a lot more due process involved in any potential VOP which protects the probationer along with extensive appeal procedures and even if it's eventually found there was a VOP federal law limits the punishment that can be inflicted usually to just a few months in jail vs going back to prison for years.

Normally I would say don't rock the boat this early but given the circumstances with a very clear judicial order I agree with Nakohichi this is something that needs to be addressed and remedied as soon as possible.