It is so hard to be in your situation but you have to have faith that things will work out for the best. Maybe she still needs to go through with the prison sentence so that she can learn and build on her sobriety. God has a plan. Trust it. And whatever you do, pls don't take in blame in her situation. You may have prayed for her to get caught but you did it out of concern for her. You were not being spiteful at the time you asked for that. Her actions yielded her current situation. Try and let her take accountability for the choices she made.

In this case there is something to be said Be careful what you wish for.
I think we have all had thoughts like this and then wish it wasn't so.
Possibly if she had been clean 7- 8 months the courts may have been easier on her. As 2 months clean is great but out of a year I am sure it didn't win over any sympathy.
I would love mt daughter to get caught but no I don't want her in jail either, however, it may be the best thing for them in the long run.

My son did get caught and is in the county jail awaiting to go to prison.He got caught several times over the last 5 years.The longest he could stay clean and sober was 3 months, then all hell would break loose and the drinking and drugging would start all over again.The last time I turned him in myself because he was totally out of control and I was afraid he would drink and drive and kill someone.I really do think prison is the next step for some addicts.They have programs to help addicts learn ways to cope and lead productive lives.8 months for your sister will probably be the best thing that has ever happened to her.Just step aside and let life happen.It will work itself out,You will see.Good luck and take care.

Two months staying clean isn't very long. I'm glad you've been able to see your sister in a new light and I hope it continues. The emotions don't ever settle down there are times they are dormant when things are going good and then your hit again when they relapse. I'm not saying she will except the probabilty is very high.
I would let the court system do their job and just be there for support to your sister. Maybe for you the emotions are you really do care for your sister and was numb before because of all the things she had done.

I would say that you have had a shield up to not get hurt, which does not mean you did not love or care about your sister, it was your way of protecting yourself. I agree witheveryone else, this is what is coming her way, and this is part of the mess she caused, and this is a conequence that she has to face.

I think that if it had to happen, it could not have come at a better time. Two months is two months. In the world of recovery, each day is to be celebrated, but there is a long road, and two months is two months.

You watned her to get caught, and she did, and there is nothing wrong with that. She did what it took to have this happen. For recovery to be successful, each person must tkae responsibility for their actions. SO this is a good lesson in why not to create any further consequences of this kind for which she will have to be responible.

Take care of yourself, good luck to your sister.

You want to dance you have to pay the piper.
Everything will work out.
Good luck to both of you.

reply #6

OMG! I grew up hearing.."he who pays the piper calls the tune." It actually made a big difference. I caused alot of emotional harm, but did everything I could to not spend my families money on things I knew were not their choices for me. It actually forced me to constantly be liable for the many of choices I was making It was only in recovery that I learned I deserved a better life than that of always beating myself up. It was only later in life I realized that this was about more than money.

Jolene-

I feel for you. This is a really, really tough situation. I absolutely agree with everyone else here who said that it is important for people in recovery to take responsibility for their actions. It's something we ALL (addict or non-addict) have to learn to do to be members of a family, a society, etc. However, I am of the belief that jail is almost always absolutely USELESS in helping addicts get clean. It can be useful when the justice system is used to order someone into rehab (which they then pay for- something the addict's family may not have been able to afford)... if the person isn't ready, they're not ready, but being in rehab gives them a CHANCE to see things differently. In the cases of things like that, drug courts, methadone programs in jail, etc, I think the courts can be beneficial.

But in the case of just sending someone to a regular jail- I think a lot of times that can do more harm than good. I have seen quite a few people I know come out of jail even worse than when they went in. It's certainly naive to believe that your loved one is going to be safe and stay clean while in jail. I've heard parents say things like "I can sleep at night because I know where she is and that she's safe and clean." I understand the relief one feels to not have to wonder where their loved one is and what's going on, but they are NOT safe and staying clean in jail. A close friend of mine lost her crack-addicted son after an arrest- the same night he was arrested, he was still being held and processed, not even at the county jail yet, when he was beaten so badly by other inmates that his spleen was ruptured. The guards don't care, so until he was unconscious on the floor they did nothing. By the time they got him to a hospital, it was too late- he had bled to death internally. My husband has been arrested more times than I can count... and most every time he spent a lot of his time in jail using drugs. It obviously taught him NOTHING because he kept getting in trouble over and over and over again. I think he finally realized that he didn't want to hurt ME anymore, so he started to get himself together, but I don't credit the jail with that. I have another friend whose boyfriend spent three years in prison. He came out and went right back to his addiction immediately. I don't know what happened to him there, but I know that he is now such an angry person that he cannot even function- the anger just seeps out of him. He wasn't like that before. So now he has even more negative emotions to try to cover up. There are countless cases of people coming out of jail/prison way worse than when they went in. I was arrested a few times during my active addiction... after the first time I went to jail, I swore the whole time I was there that I would never touch drugs again. That lasted for ONE DAY after I was released and I was back to using again. I don't want to get into the details of everything that happened, but after being in jail I started to have unbearable anxiety, just FEAR, and these terrible nightmares... I would start shaking every time I saw a police officer. I was then diagnosed with PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) caused solely by my experiences with my arrest and time in jail. That was in NO WAY beneficial to me. It was MORE terrible emotions to try to cover up with drugs. And despite all of the fear, my addiction was more powerful, and I was arrested three more times after that, each time adding to the trauma. After 3 1/2 years clean, it i something I am STILL working through.
Basically, what it comes down to is that the idea of "SCARED STRAIGHT" just does NOT work. If it did, the first five overdoses would have done it. Waking up in the weeds after being robbed and beaten while trying to cop in a bad neighborhood would have done it. Flopping on the floor- aware but with no control- in the midst of a cocaine-induced seizure would have done it. Thinking you're turning a routine trick and ending up being gang raped would have done it. None of these things (all examples from my life or the lives of people I care about) stop addicts from using, nor does being sent to jail.

And then if the person does end up getting clean down the line, their criminal record will HAUNT them. My husband is well-educated and extremely talented at what he does... but with multiple felony convictions on his record, he hasn't even been able to get a job in fast food, nevermind in his field. And this is after TWO YEARS of being clean and searching for a job. We've both been clean for a few years now yet we still have to depend on welfare and food stamps. It shouldn't be that way in recovery. It makes us feel like we are still stuck in our pasts. He works his ass off at his own business and we keep the bills paid that way, but we barely make ends meet. Some people get lucky and find an employer who doesn't want a background check... but that's rare. I had a friend who found a job that way... and then someone decided to "anonymously" tell her boss about her past, so they ended up doing a background check and, despite being a model employee, she lost her job. A criminal record- more specifically a FELONY record- can even stop you from finding a decent place to live. My husband and I finally saved enough money to move out of our shithole of a house where we used, and it took us almost six months to find a new apartment... because everyone wanted background and credit checks. I never knew landlords cared about your past so much, but they do. I must say that we are BLESSED and have an amazing, beautiful place to call home now... but we only got it because we really hit it off with the landlord and ended up helping him when his car broke down while showing us apartments- so after all that, he said he didn't care about background and credit checks. But it took us six months to get to that point. ANd we are both doing everything RIGHT it our lives now. But when you have felony records, they plague you for the rest of your life. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I'm sorry for the rant. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular and certainly not you, Jolene. I just get upset when this topic comes up because of the experiences I have had. I've discussed this with my parents and, while they practiced the whole tough love thing with me, the jail thing was just as terrible for them as it was for me. They believe as strongly as I do that it was detrimental to my recovery and overall mental health. I don't want to see any of the things that I have experienced or witnessed happen to other people.

Jolene, I pray that nothing is set in stone for your sister yet. What a prosecutor is seeking in terms of a sentence is not necessarily what the defendant will end up getting. I personally was charged with something that could have sent me to jail for a few years that ended up being completely dismissed for lack of evidence once it got in front of a judge. Does your sister have a lawyer? Someone to advocate for her, to speak on the quality of the short amount of recovery that she has achieved? She can take responsibility for her actions without ending up in jail- there's mandatory drug treatment and drug testing, community service (which can be a GREAT thing, especially if you get to work for an organization as a volunteer- helping others is so good for an addict newly recovering- it builds self-esteem), etc. Despite all that I said, just because I don't believe that jail is HELPFUL, it doesn't mean that your sister can't hold strong to her recovery and make it through. I have seen people do that- just keep to themselves and read recovery literature and attend every AA or NA meetings offered at the jail. If she does end up in jail, just be there to support her- make sure you visit as often as possible to keep her connected to her real life and feeling loved- maybe even bring your daughter, if you feel comfortable with that.

Ok, as far as how you are feeling. Jolene, PLEASE do not blame yourself for any of this. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. When you prayed, you were not praying for your clean and sober sister to be sent to prison for two years. You were praying for your SICK sister to GET HELP. Whatever the actual words were, I know that the intent behind your prayers was just to find help for your sister. It sounds like you have always handled your sister's addiction in the best way possible- detaching with love. And now that she is doing well, you are there for her. That's kinda the whole idea behind tough love- "I won't do anything to help you stay sick, but I will do anything to help you recover." That is what you are doing. I think your emotions make complete sense. As I said before, you wanted your sick sister to get help. And if she was still using, you might feel ok about her going to jail. But since she isn't, of course you don't want to see her there. I really will keep you guys in my prayers... and if they do end up sending her away, I truly hope it will be to TREATMENT, not to jail. Whatever happens, as long as she is staying clean, just keep being her sister. She'll need you.
And if you're having a really hard time dealing with things, please get yourself some help as well- naranon, therapy, whatever works.

I know this was long- I apologize. It just caught my attention because it's something I feel very strongly about AND something I can relate to. After 2 1/2 years clean, my husband has a court case that is STILL dragging on and on and on from BEFORE he got clean. He's doing great, has completely rebuilt his life, even his probation officer is on his side, but still, anything could happen. Having this hanging over our heads sucks. I feel like getting his life together and staying out of trouble WAS his way of taking responsibility. I don't want to see him punished NOW which would 'cause us to lose everything and have to start at square one. So I can relate to what you are going through.

I will keep you both in my prayers. If you'd like to talk privately about this, please feel free to send me a message any time. Also, keep us updated- let us know what happens after her court date on Tuesday.. All the best,

~Jennifer

In cases like this I try and keep in mind..
"Things aways work out the way they are supposed to." You really can't control what is going to happen, that ball started rolling a long time ago. He journey is her journey.
Stay in touch with her and support her, but as Joe said... for everyone there comes a time when the piper must be paid.

So, my thought is that jail does not get people straight. I think that it is a consequence, but then I also do not believe in the sentencing laws for drugs, or the classification of many offenses, but that is still another thread. The thing is that there are more and more people who would never otherwise set foot in prison landing there and they do not know how to "jail," and it is dangerous, to say the least. Of course, there is the school of thought that if you want to hang with the boys, you do the time with them.

Okay, so having said that,. I think that if the thought of going ot jail does not scare someone, they don't really get that they can and will go there, a quick visit to wake up people who do not have that in their comprehension can sometimes put something in their mind.

As to whether people do or do not get clean in prison, I think that is a really individual thing. I know someone who was an active addict for about 20 years. During that time he went ot jail more than once, but did not go to prison unitl the very end. He was there about two years, during which he swore he was done. He got high the same day he got out, and did for another year. Then he got clean and has not relapsed in18 years. He says that he sees that first year out as a relapse, that he had to learn how to be clean outside, that he had to get rid of the fear of going back to using because he was outside, that he had to do it that way. I am just thankful that he is where he is today.

I also know people who have other stories. I had the extreme priviledge of sponsoring two people who had to make it as part of their parole. I say priviledge because I learned so much.

One thing I know is that prison is not a solution to the problem of addiction. But the other side is that at what point do you say that the addict has earned the right to not face this consequence.

Nikki you and I agree on one thing jail is not the answer to a person who is a addict. The problem is what to do with all the addicts and the problem is increasing. Until we start putting these people in long term rehabs and teach them skills so they can support themselves their is little that can be done. Its amazing our tax dollars can go toward the prisons but not toward making it manditory anyone who gets in trouble because of drug use must go to a rehab and have long term probation. Instead we throw them in jail with alittle drug rehab if they are lucky only a few get to go to a rehab program and then that program isn't long enough.

We actually agree on more! I am very much in favor of changing the sentencing and laws as well as the classifications of various offenses.

I'm with both of you, Nikki and Katrinka! I didn't even get into all of that in my post, I just talked about jail not being beneficial. But I feel much more strongly about this issue than just that. It makes me SICK that non-violent drug offenders are thrown into prison with violent, REAL criminals. If addiction is a disease, then it is certainly the ONLY disease for which we punish people with jail time!

Then you have someone who molested their child being released in six months, after having damaged someone FOR LIFE... and then someone who had some crack for their own personal use is going to go to the same jail but for much longer!?! This money could be spent in much better places. The first time I was arrested, I spent time in jail and used as soon as I went home. Well, since I was being drug-tested, the courts sent me to rehab. For how long? 10 days. And that was it- I completed rehab so they were done with me. No one is going to "get it" in ten days. So the little bit of money they are spending on treatment is being squandered. I think every town and city should have a drug court, where addicts can get HELP instead of jail.

Honestly, I don't believe in drug prohibition at all. I'm big on harm reduction, and I think legalization would be a HUGE way to reduce harm. I would like to see that happen- I don't think a government should dictate what we put into our bodies. Addiction should be a medical issue, not a legal one. Along with legalization though, I would like to see there be some way to have addicts ordered to treatment, maybe by some sort of medical panel with involvement of a family member.... I think it would hugely reduce crime if drugs were regulated, legal, and cheaper, but there'd still be some drug-related crime- theft and whatnot- so there'd still be people entering the legal system that way. Legalization and drug courts. That's what I'd like to see.

What a lovely fantasy world I live in, huh? ;)

my sister, the pain in my brain, for so many years, has been through it all, i swear!
when i first found out she was using, it was because her 10 and 12 year old daughters called me to ask if i knew where mom was. when i asked them if she was in bed, the replied, 'no auntie jo...we haven't seen her in 4 days...' 4 DAYS! no one had even noticed that they weren't at school, they had been eating granola bars, and sharing saltine crackers.
i was furious...i went knocking on doors, sure that when i found her i was going to rip her to peices. she had never been the most responsible person, but this?
i finally found her, and she wasn't even coherent. so we took her kids to grandmas house(mine too at the time) and we kept them there until she came knocking.
she told us she had taken some E, and that it had been laced. we, stupidly, believed her.
let me say, i am 7 years younger then my sister. so we are worlds apart in alot of aspects.
it took us a month to catch on, and it took childrens services seven months to take her children from her.
her oldest went to live with her father, her youngest ended up with me and my fiancee. she was 12, i was 22. try raising a hormonal preteen girl with abandonment issues when your barely out of your teens yourself!
after a year they needed a permenant home, and we were starting our own family, and living in a dump, so she ended up with her grandma.
in this time, my sister was sent to a rehab for a 90 day program....court ordered. this rehab, what a joke, she was allowed to leave the grounds between 11am and 7pm, go where she pleased, she just had to attend her NA meeting and mind her curfew.
she was sober for three weeks when she came home.
she has been arrested for numerous counts of theft. and it is usually stupid things she steals...like once she filched shoe laces!
she has done some terrible things. on christmas one year, she came into my home, acted proper, and when she left, she stole all of her children's christmas gifts, and some others.
two months is a BIG thing for her. i've never really supported her before, it didn't seem like she was changing, like it was just a show. but this seems different.
she could still relapse, she could still fall back into the dark.....but im rooting for her now.
jail, honestly....shes terrified to go. all the tough talk about who she ran crack for, and all her 'big and tough' friends, the ones who loved her more than her family for so long...they mean nothing there and she's scared.
i don't know if it will help, i hope it won't hurt. she is 98% garunteed the jail time.
on tuesday, once i know what is going on, ill update....
until then...thanks for all the support!

she got 2 years plus a few days. she can get out in 6-8 months on good behaviour. they are sending her to a federal jail, but we aren't sure wich one yet.
on a darker note, I saw her 13 year old daughter that night, and we talked about how she was handling the fact that her mother was in jail. she said it hurt, but that she was going to be okay.
this morning she threatened to cut her wrists and was forcibly admitted to the psychiatric ward at our hospital. she cannot get out until the doctor releases her.
so many years of living with my sister.....she's never getting out.