I can only comment on my experiences with my son, maybe addicts aren't all the same - I don't know. After 12 years of buying him cars so he could work, I realize now they were just so he could drive to get drugs. Paying his rent, so he had more money for drugs. The more we gave, the more he took. I am now a big fan of letting the addict see what life is like if they choose to continue using. About a month ago, my son for the first time actually sought out help on his own. That was after everyone pretty much stopped helping him. He was sleeping in his car in 20 degree weather. I'm sorry there is a baby involved though. Your brother and gf have a hostage.

I know if a person is working recovery in earnest it is okay to help them our with basic things like a place to stay and food. But you give them only a month or two to find a job then they are on their own. Do not give them money. You are not suppose to reward their doing what they were suppose to be doing all along. Alot of people are so pleased the addict is finally getting clean they bend over backwards to help the addict.
If they go back to using before the two months are up they have to move and don't give them anything.
Your dad has to be firm in what he tells your brother, I will help you and you have to work a recovery program, get a job and if you go back to using drugs you will be told to leave.
He has to be tough, loving but not let your brother manipulate him anymore.
Now that social services are involved this might help. Tell your dad he doesn't need to make things better for the GF and your brother, just so they don't loose the baby. That is their job. It seems your brother called and using the baby to manipulate your dad.

Why can't your brother work? If I were your dad I would not give this man one penny or allow him in my home. If he is serious about recovery, there are things he can do to make it happen. And as far as the child, I'd say your brother is using that "visit" as a way to get some sympathy. If they thought the home was that unsuitable, I don't think they'd give them 3 months. I think he's telling a lot of half-truths...to get some money and/or a place to live.

Does your family know the g/f's family? Maybe it is best if they handle the situation with the baby as they would have more control over the mother. Also keep in mind that social services is not always the ideal place and perhaps a family member on the mother's side would step up if they knew what was happening.

Also, although I believe that adoption is a viable option, IF your brother does get clean he may resent your family if he loses his child. Although it is completely on their shoulders and not your family's that is what addicts do, they are always the victim.

Now about the food/shelter, my brother has been an addict/alcoholic for years, as was our father. My parents even bought him a house. He is almost 39 and even though my parents cut him off (they ran out of $$) he works and just borrows from someone else and has never sought help. He has a 14 yr old daughter and is a sometimes weekend father - the "fun" father. Her mother had her wild early days but that stopped the moment she had her and has since married. I can say nothing bad about her, my niece is a wonderful, smart girl and she owes it all to her mom.

Also,
"ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING:
Please, do not pass ethical judgements on me." You are not to be judged as you don't own the addiction, they do. All I see is a post by a sister who cares and loves her family and her brother enough to seek out help.

Stay strong.

THANK YOU for taking the time to reply!

My brother never really worked because he wanted it to. He has two Master's degrees from well respected British Unis but he never really looked for a job as he was into "other things".

He held two dead end jobs my father had to kiss a$$ to find him, but instead of working he spent most of his time hanging out with his dope "friends'.

So, yes, my brother has been enabled BIG TIME.

If a miracle happens and he does come back home, Katrinka, we live in Greece and unemployment rates are sky rocketing every other day. The country is going through a very difficult period. Who would hire a junky when the market is swarming with CVs for just about any type of job? The two month ultimatum is bound to fail.

StayFunny, I am sorry you had/have to walk down such a road..

The g/f's father has contacted my father a few times, but all he does is ask for money, make incredible excuses for his daughter and even threatened my father's life one time. They don't accept the fact that their daughter is addicted and that the baby was born addicted. They don't accept the fact that my brother is addicted too. For them, the word "rehab" is a big NO NO. They are like "the kids are doing great. Now, help them out because they are unemployed and have a baby". ??!!

The social worker of the hospital the g/f gave birth at, was attacked by that man and security had to intervene. My brother has told us that his g/f's father is an alcoholic... They live on wellfare too. So, I can't see the social services giving the baby to them..

Besides, they have no control over their daughter. Who in the right frame of mind would let his/her daughter all alone during a pregnancy and while addicted? They saw her for the first time after 13 years, when she delivered.

Sorry for the long reply... Thank you soooo much for taking the time to reply... Thank you for not judging...

Children have a right to safety, supervision, and care. Children aged 12-18 require less monitoring from the community and are usually able to speak for themselves. Children aged 6-12 require more and are largely unable to speak for themselves. Children aged 2-6 are quite vulnerable. Children aged under 2 years require the highest level of parental and community monitoring and supervision.

As a member country of the European Union, Greece has agreed to protocols for dealing with child abuse and neglect. People often have views about a country's laws eg "pro mother" and the like. These views are personal opinions rather than legal facts.

The EU would not allow a country to join one of the most human rights-based institutions in the world if it's legal system was truly gender-biased. I am sure there are many anecdotal stories about mothers winning cases. In other countries research has been done that does not support this belief. The reason mothers get custody more often than fathers is because they are more often the parent who has custody already. When the mother is a drug addict, the situation is different.

Whether you are an aunt or not, an adult with knowledge that a child is not getting safety, supervision or proper care, has an opportunity to notify the authorities and then the authorities are liable if they do not act. This could be seen as an ethical issue, whereby comments about it could be seen as judgemental. Or it could be seen as a community safety and child rights issue.

Yesterday I was out visiting a friend in a relatively poor neighbourhood, which is hilly. I saw a girl about 4 years old careening down a very steep driveway towards the street on a tricycle with no helmet or shoes. A woman was calling to her telling her to come back to the house like she told her to. I don't think it's safe for a 4 year old (or even 6 year old) to do this. There was no gate to stop her going onto the street into traffic. If there had been, she would have sustained injury if she had hit it. She ended up being able to stop the trike safely and walk back up.

How easily she could have gotten injured - a 4 year old does not have the physical skills to handle that situation. I didn't say or do anything about it. I made a judgement call that it wouldn't be well received (my safety would be at risk), I didn't have time to call the police/CPS and frankly I have more than enough crisis to deal with in my own life. Chances are, that child is probably at risk from a range of issues and there may already be CPS involvement. Services are relatively good here. Or else it was a one off and the girl was in alot of trouble for escaping and doing that. Alot of the time when a stranger sees one incident it's not part of a pattern and much harm can be done by reporting it.

Pen, your situation is quite different. You have alot more info about the baby's situation. You do have reasonable grounds and evidence of your own that would make your story credible. You can report it without being at risk yourself. You also probably have time too, because it's been a concern for you since she got pregnant, and filing the report would take maybe 30 minutes? Even if it took a day off work, it's not an unreasonable suggestion.

I'm sorry if you feel I am making moral judgements about your life choices. I don't believe I am. Now that your Dad is starting to think about reporting the baby, maybe you could reconsider whether the baby's safety is more important than your parents' feelings. They are old enough to manage their own life. They must know the baby is at risk as much as you know this. I think it's likely they or at least your Dad will end up reporting the baby at some point. I know their health is fragile and I certainly wouldn't want them to have a stroke or heart attack either. And I know how much you want to care for them and you want them to know you love them and will be there for them, especially when your brother has hurt them so much.

You are not any more responsible for the baby's safety than I was responsible for that 4 year old yesterday. But you have information. Especially since the authorities are slow to act, children in Greece need adults to help them more than ever.

Hi Hope,

Being a sociologists I know first hand how Directives are applied by each member state. EU is trying to bring together national legislations, but you shouldn't forget that the distance between paper and reality can sometimes be enormous. As far as your comment on "pro mother", I can assure you there are still countries that are gender biased. Greece is one of them. Even when it comes to narcotics. It is sad.

One thing I haven't mentioned in any of my posts, trying to make a long story short, is that we have indeed filed a report against the mother and my brother right after the baby was born.

We know for a fact that our report was part of the Social Services report that the went to the D.A., authority responsible for the wellfare of the baby.

For reasons I don't know, the decision was...well, pro mother.

Reporting such cases does not take 30 minutes. It takes a lot of back and forth here, figuring out your way in a bureaucratic labyrinth, trying to find out who is responsible [usually, no one is], hitting on the wall of "confedentiality" and being looked down.

We've been there...

I my self have informed every single non governamental authority, from well respected children's NGO that intervene is such cases to the Ombudsman as well as public rehab centres for addicted mothers. There is NO authority in our city that has not been informed.

However, they all say the same "if the DA gave the baby to them, there is nothing we can do".

But you said in an earlier post that the NGOs had advised you to file a report, and you didn't want to. So that's what I was basing it on. Where I live, it does only take 30 minutes, in a phone call. I know it takes longer to file an updating report in Greece, but I'm saying the baby needs another visit from the authorities, and personally I would give up my time to do that. I would rather do that than feel it was on my shoulders.

As always, these decisions are up to each person to make. You wanted some advice on how to avoid enabling your brother. I would suggest you just ignore him and move on with your life. Your parents can decide for themselves what they will do.

Hope, maybe I wasn't clear enough, sorry for that.

The D.A. decided that the baby should go to the parents, despite the initial social worker's report, which included our report.
Since then [early October], the couple has been paid two visits. The visits take place every 3 months, and that is according to the law. The social worker wont' go earlier.

The NGOS and the Om/man, told us to file a report against my brother, but the D.A. already knows that the couple is addicted to heroin, so there's nothing more to say about that. The DA knows the story and made his decision.

I told that to the NGOs and they had no other advice to offer. They kept repeating the same thing, which indicates a dead end.

So, the only thing we can do is file a report against the D.A. himself. Even if we are crazy enough to get caught up in a legal fight with state people, it will take years to go to court. That's how it works here, unfortunately.

I have been calling the social services department for almost 3 weeks now, and nobody picks up the phone. My father was trying for hours, same result.. He'll go there himself and try to find the social worker.

In any case, thanks for giving this sad story your time.. I know you mean well.

I think that if your brother works for them, say, is accounted for for 8 hours a day, can consistently hold this 'job' maybe running errands, doing chores, maybe minor house repairs, giving him a little bit of money is okay. And providing shelter is okay.

On the other hand, he could take the other sixteen hours of the day to use that money to get stoned, or he could use that house to come back to once every few days when he's so beaten he needs a few hours sleep to recharge before re enterering the world of drugs.

I know you said you don't consider that baby your neice, but will you always feel like this? I took in my 12 year old neice(I was 22) when childrens services took my sister's kids away from her. And I wished every day she was younger so that the behavioral problems weren't so deeply embedded. I mean, if adoption is best, then that's what should happen, I just see regrets ahead if you don't explore every option. In Canada they paid me over 800 a month to care for my neice, plus mileage, plus school fees, organized sports fees and a bunch of other things.

I hope you guys figure out whatever will work best for your family.

There are plenty of pros and cons and we are struggling with some of the same issues ourselves.

We had our 18 year old son move out of the house last November. We felt we were enabling him because he had access to a TV, a well-stocked refrigerator, a computer, and comfortable surroundings. He had no incentive to get clean or to finish his high school diploma or to get a job. We signed a six month lease on an apartment and let him know this was his opportunity to graduate from high school and get a job. He would also need to go to out patient rehab.

Having him in an apartment forces him to clean up after himself or live in his own mess. If he wants to go somewhere, he has to take the bus. He has to do his own laundry. He does not have a computer or cable TV. (He has a TV, but it's only connected to a DVD player.) So, he's limited to the basics. The only cash he gets is about $10 a month. His food comes from us buying him groceries--no cash.

Here we are three months later and he still doesn't have a job. He has made little progress toward graduation. His attendance at outpatient therapy is spotty. The apartment is a pigsty. We are now at the point where we have cut off everything except food and rent. Food is now going to come with strings attached. If he wants a couple of days worth of groceries, he will need to clean his kitchen and attend 2 AA or NA meetings. If cutting off food doesn't work, utilities will be cut off in April. Then we will not renew the lease the end of May and he will be homeless.

I still think we did the right thing by providing food and rent while he attempts to get his life back together. That's what I'd recommend before letting him move back home or giving him money.

The down side, though, is that he does not live alone. My son's biggest problem is that his roommate is an addict and an alcoholic who routinely brings drugs and alcohol to the apartment. If your brother is living with his girlfriend, she is going to be using drugs and that will make it very difficult for him to get clean, assuming that he even wants it. Allowing him to live at home at least takes care of that problem, but has the downside of enabling him.

In the end, I would probably recommend renting him a room or a small efficiency apartment with a short-term lease where he could live by himself during outpatient therapy. Then if he's successful, see about moving him into a sober living facility. If he continues using, end the rent payments plus all financial support. Your family could offer to help with the baby to keep an eye on him or her. Outpatient therapy is not a full-time thing. If he is left with nothing to do, he will be more likely to relapse. If he can't find a job, your father could also require him to perform some volunteer work, some chores around his house, or work on his education. Or, he could be required to care for the baby, at minimum.

I think it's good that your Dad is actively trying to engage with the DA, it will give him a feeling of doing what he can, and that is good for him. The same goes for you. In your first few posts it sounded a bit like you weren't taking all the steps available to you, and your Dad wasn't in the picture at all (in this way). So it seemed a bit like you were trying to protect them, which doesn't really work because they still have all the pain of watching this all happen.

Are there are support services that your parents can go to for help, like a therapist or a group of people in similar situations. We have Al-Anon, I don't know if there are groups like that in Greece. If they feel embarrassed then a private therapist could suit them better.

I wonder if the NGOs and the Ombudsman are recommending filing another report because it might help. It's a disgrace that they only go 3 monthly, but maybe there is a policy that they go more often if they get more than one report... if you have new information you could just write them a letter and copy it to the DA.

Can you approach your elected representative, like a politician, I don't know whether you have senators, members of parliament or whatever. Writing letters is easier than going in to the offices. I don't know, maybe they just don't answer them though.

Another option is to get a lawyer to help. If your parents have some money set aside for a rainy day, I think this would be a better use for it than letting your brother manipulate it out of them to support his lifestyle. But I realise they have stopped giving him money, which is good.

I wish there was an option that didn't involve yet more work, time and stress. It's a real shame the system doesn't make it easy for people to ask for help. Our health and social services aren't perfect either, often the people who complain the loudest get the services first, and the resources aren't always used for those who most need them. But all you can do is keep complaining until someone decides it's easier to give you what you want than to keep saying no.

What about getting the police to arrest your brother or the gf when they go to get drugs? Do they ever drive after using?

If baby does get to a good environment, when she grows up and learns what you did for her you will have a friend for life! And probably someone to help you when you are old ;-) I hope and pray that things work out for her, and you all get healthy and well.

Hi there,

Hope, we've tried the lawyer way. I've searched and found 4 different lawyers who specialise in cases like these. No one accepted to take the case. Don't ask me why, they just said no after briefing them. Two months of efforts down the drain. Currently, lawyers are again on strike and no one knows when the strike will end...

I am banging my head against a wall. That's how it feels.

Reaching out to a politician.. Dear, we live in Greece. Politicians here "serve" you only when there smt in for them. I should know, I used to work for one. Besides, the country is in such a absurd mess that politicians don't even dare to appear in public. I'm talking about major booing and having eggs and yogurt being thrown at them, being physically attacked, humilated in the news, what have you... Anyway, they are all caught up in their self induced problems, they honestly don't give a rat's a$$.

Support groups: I've tried SO HARD to convince my parents to try support groups one more time. They did it in the past and they were 100% turned off. Private counseling, they did that too and nada... We do have Al Anon and I've been pushing my mother to go to one of the meetings together. She doesn't want to.

We have tried EVERY possible way, but one: report the D.A. and the Social Services to a higher authority.

Dear Donna, I am so sorry you too are going through this... Thank you for taking the time to reply... My brother has been a heroin addict since 2004, which means that we've walked all these roads too many times already. We have done just about everything and I mean e v e r y t h i n g . Nothing worked. Even when my parents stopped giving him money, he "somehow" found a way to get high. I am sure he is pushing, it's in the drug culture. Same holds for his g/f. She doesn't work, yet she's been living alone for 13 years.

I realise that unless HE wants to clean up, there's nothing we can do.. No matter how hard I try to find a way out of this, he is the wall I am banging my head against.

Today is a very sad day for our family... My father lost his eldest sister to a heart attack. We're going to the funeral tomorrow. I hadn't seen her for ages, although I love her a lot. I have been missing out on life due to my brother's addiction. I rushed out from work crying my eyes out, not because she's not alive anymore, she had a good life, but because I didn't get to say goodbye to her.


This week the mass transportation system is on strike-again. I will not let my father take the car down town, we're talking about 6 hrs of back and forth in heavy traffic jams. I do want to protect my parents. My brother has made his decisions and I am not taking responsibility for him or anyone else who is related to him. I don't know how I'll feel in the future. The future isn't here yet.

Donna, I hope and pray your son comes out of this soon. Whenever you need to talk, I am here, send me an email, we've been where you are.

Thank you all for your time and concern. I am not going to continue this thread, but I'll keep you posted.

Pen

I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your Aunt. It's a very difficult time for you right now. Take care, Hope

Pen, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your aunt.

I have an update on my son. He called yesterday because he needed a ride to a meeting. A friend took him earlier in the week, so he's on track to get all the required meetings in. As I was worried that he was blowing off the meetings, he was trying to show me that he could do it on his own. He still has a long way to go, but it does seem that cutting off all of the privileges, even the threat to cut off food, is working. He also mentioned that he and his roommate are no longer friends and the roommate is almost never at the apartment any more. So, things are looking much better than they were. Our strategy of moving him out and cutting off all except the basics is showing some promise.