Depression Support Group
Depression is a real and debilitating condition that is often misunderstood by family and friends. Its meaning can range from a prolonged period of sadness to an actual mental illness with specific symptoms. Find and share experiences with others who are going through the same struggles.
I have been a Christian all my life, studied for the ministry, had to drop out because of depression. Looked for help, nothing worked. Grew up with abuse and neglect by what I know believe were alcoholics.
Got married at 33, prayed for a Christ centered family and marriage. Turned out my wife was a spending addict and would not take care of our child. Our child began to show signs of something wrong. We prayed for a diagnosis. We got none. Nothing helped.
He grew up, got worse and worse. He is 27 now, and they think he has schizophrenia. He is in jail now because of his mental illness. If he gets out, he will be homeless in the winter time.
Last week, I was listening to Rick Warren's 40 days of purpose, and he kept on using the phrase "God loves you so much . . . " and it hit me. I realized that this cannot in any way be true.
I prayed all my life for relief from my depression. God said nothing, God did nothing. I prayed for a healthy child, nope. I prayed for guidance on how to help my son. Nothing. I prayed right up until last week. I finally realize, God definitely does not love me or my son.
What kind of Loving father watches suffering and does absolutely nothing, ignores requests for help from his children? The were 90.000 Christians killed for their faith. Some were burned alive, some drowned in cages, some buried alive, even children buried alive, and some crucified.
What kind of a God loves his chilren by not protecting them? He does nothing and says nothing. I have wasted my life believing in this God. I don't know if I am angry at God, or angry at myself for believing this nonsene.
Now I am forced to make a choice about my belief. Either God is a personal God, in which case, he is a liar or uncaring oaf. Because he is able to help, but is unwilling. He just watches suffering and says nothing, does nothing.
OR, God is an impersonal God like a principle, like gravity, in which case God is not able to help even though he may be willing
OR, God is just imaginary, like that friend you had when you were 5 years old, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny.
I am really angry about this, and disillusioned and disoriented. I have wasted my life believing in God and "his promises."
I think Christians are like that child who keeps making excuses for a deadbeat Dad, "well we don't understand the big picture." Just like the child who says, "well, Daddy probably had important work to do, he will come next time I have a birthday."
Does anyone have a third alternative? Is there a limited god who is helpful even though not powerful?
As his father, do you not believe that it is your duty to love your son unconditionally and to keep the faith that God never makes a mistake? Your son needs your prayers and your faith. I will be praying for you and your family.
But don't worry, God gives Job a new family. LOL LOL LOL.
Bible stories aren't good to really pay too much attention to and certainly can't be brought out as arguments. There is too much contortion required to make them sound good. OMG Lot. and his daughters. His teenaged virgin daughters who raped him in his sleep without him waking up, (of course) to get him more sons. Jolly decent of them what.
These things are fairy stories.
What fascinates me is that we learn about all the other myths and legends at school and say 'oh, that's imaginary. They needed a way to explain how they got there to the children' , but don't put two and two together about our own myths and legends. And those of other cultures are looking at our stuff and saying 'that's understandable, stories made up to answer the questions of children...'
But we stick with it! And then everything, everything is rationalised within that context. It doesn't matter what you do or think, it's interpreted within that context of this fairy tale creature being all knowing and all powerful, and omnipresent.
You don't grow out of religion, no. you 'get angry at God'. If you stop believing, it's because 'you're depressed or rejecting your faith'.
There's no language to explain the concept of realising you were buying into some kind of mass hypnosis and waking up from it. That discovery gets reinvented as 'losing your way' or 'having your faith tested'.
So what you see as an awakening after a long and drugged sleep, is renamed as denial as you're pounded back into the fold like dough being kneaded. It can feel quite inexorable, and the older you get, the more your social life is set, the more you have to lose by breaking away from the agreed belief systems of the group.
I'm reminded of terry pratchett's wee free men who consider the world they are in to be heaven ie they're already dead, and when they 'die' in this world they are born in the 'real' world.
It's moot, but what's the most rational way to handle it? Is life the test for some hereafter? Or is life all you get, and if you waste it calling it a test for the hereafter, that's it?
Think of what the chances were of you being born. So very, very slim. How amazing that you made it. Now, how will you use it? All your life on your knees praising a megalomaniac view of some eternal despot (who will burn you in hell if you don't do what he wants but better say he's loving or he'll burn you twice as long) or on your feet, living?
What would a real father god want? Constant praise? Or the odd postcard as you live your life fully?
bridgie101, for us believers, living for God 'is' living fully. It's not a burden, it's a gift. We have hope in something far greater than what this life offers. Your life isn't perfect and neither is mine but one day, mine will be. You don't believe, that's your choice, but nothing you wrote makes me question my faith. In fact, it only makes it stronger. I hope you are living life fully because if you reject Jesus, this is as good as it gets for you. My fairy tale has a happily ever after.
I know all of you who defend faith are trying to help, but that ship has sailed. I can't go baci to having faith in God, any more than I can go back to believing in Santa Claus. I actually feel better now that I have dropped the concept of a powerful God who cares about me personally. I have, in effect, fired my Higher Power. I am looking for another, but don't know how.
Obviously, there is something that keeps everything together. There is something that makes me abstinent and sober through the 12 steps. That something is just not as powerful and able as Christians believe. The creative force, or Higher Power is either not able to heal us all, not able to help us when we need it, or it is unwilling. Perhaps it is unable, but willing. Perhaps there is a limited number of things that a Higher Power can do for us.
At this point in the conversation, well meaning people will use superlative language, like "always." "You can't expect to be happy ALL the time," or "you can't expect a miracle EVERY DAY," or "I don't get made every time things don't go my way," or the real copout, "well, we don't understand his plans."
NO, I have given about 50 years to Christianity. It has brought me nothing but disappointment. I am tired of hoping. There are NO MIRACLES, I am never happy, I have tried everything, trying to please God, trying to do his will, trying to the next right thing, trying to somehow relate to life.
I have just learned in the last two years, things that I didn't know. One is, that I have had multiple, repeated traumas in my childhood. I did not know they were traumas. It was just my life. I sob every day for the slightest reason or no reason at all. I have been depressed all my life.
I've gone to therapists, psychiatrists, ministers, used about ten different antidepressants. Each time I prayed for guidance for an effective treatment. God said nothing God did nothing. God did not Guide or instruct.
It wasn't until I found the 12 steps that I found some relief. I had about 2 1/2 years of a good life, more or less, and the depression came creeping back in. I believe that belief in a God that loves me and belief in reality are two antithetical positions. You can't believe two polar opposites. God does not love us, as evidenced by the consistent, repeated, failure of prayer to help anything. In fact, it only produces disappointment and despair.
There is only evidence that God does not care, or that God cares but is not able to help us when we really need it. I feel better now that I no longer believe in this faerie tale.
If this is God's plan, that I am not impressed. If this is the best He can do, and then say, " I don't owe you an explanation." That is the demeanor and behavior of a tyrant. I could go on about the total obscenity of the concept of eternal punishment. You create a race, knowing that they will go astray, and impose a punishment in advance that never ends. What would that accomplish? There is no God that would do that.
What kind of monster would claim to be able to heal you or your loved one, then demand your absolute love and loyalty, and when you need help, deny what is desperately needed. What kind of evil entity would demand that someone die in order to forgive? If God loves us so much, why not just forgive? Why go through all the barbaric animal sacrifice, and insist that Jesus die on a cross?
Why allow your followers all over the world to be tortured and killed in unimaginable ways? Why, you ask, because "His ways are not our ways," we are told. You got that right. His ways are not my ways, at least if you are talking about the codependent rageaholic God of the Bible.
In searching for answers, I came across Peter Kreeft. He's a Catholic writer who's written articles and books on God and the nature of suffering. While they haven't really helped me, they may help you and other people.
Suffering
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/philosophy/suffering.html
God and Suffering
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/apologetics/god-and-suffering.html
What is God's Answer to Human Suffering?
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/apologetics/what-is-god-s-answer-to-human-suffering.html
I just came across this one will doing a search for the above articles:
10 Things You Should NEVER Say To a Catholic With Mental Illness
http://epicpew.com/10-things-never-say-catholic-mental-illness/
I hope you can find some clarity that works to help you and will work in your life to help you threw the bad times. I dont think there is a clear cut answer that works for all peoples lives.
LillyGabriel, statements like that go against everything Jesus tried to teach.
How dare you insinuate she's going to some kind of purgatory or hell because her beliefs differ.
Let God run her show. You don't know the mind of God or Gods will for her life.
Go reread the Sermon on the Mount and come back and condemn her.
OP, find your peace. We don't always know the "whys". Maybe as Patti suggested help change circumstances for the Schizophrenic community.
No living thing should live without hope and dignity.
Try to find peace and make some lemonade out of the lemons and answers may come when you least expect it.
Keep yourself open to change and never mind the "form" God/life/the universe shows up in.
No one, absolutely no one, has all the answers.
If someone thinks they do, they may be in for a rude awakening.
Sometimes the first are last and the last are first.
He left us to disease and death again, so nothing really changed. God forgave sins before Jesus was born, so nothing changed after he rose from the dead. There is no reason for suffering, there is no grand plan. If there is, then the plan is really lame.
Jesus died because he spoke truth to power. NOthing was accomplished.
I personally don't. But you might. If there's anybody there, then it is logical to start kowtowing. The more dictatorial they are, the lower you obeise and the louder you must cry that they are wonderful, and that you love them. If they truly are wonderful of course, you don't have to say a thing....
oops. sorry. :D
Anyway there are a few options on God. There's the eternal now god, looking and controlling now: then there's the catalyst god, created the big bang and then went away. then there's the effervescent god, a kind of life force floating around the universe in the air creating life without mental existence.
Hey there are more. What do you actually feel, in your gut, is there?
For me? It was a realisation. I had believed in a lot of things that weren't there. There's no anger to be had when you realise this. You've done it. But you don't have to persist with it.
I am glad whatever you have going is helping you through drying out. I imagine drying out is probably as horrible as, if not more horrible than, quitting smoking. Which is abysmal and which I've also done. Quitting smoking was another myth to be busted as well: when you're a smoker you believe all manner of stuff you realise isn't true when you manage to escape. Wow, what a pack of lies you believe about your life, about yourself, you have no idea how much of an impact the chemical has on your mental functioning till it stops doing it. And then you realise some pretty horrible stuff.
I don't know why your 12 steps is working for you but I would point the finger at logic if I had to point it anywhere. Logic is really powerful. Simple sense is very effective. We aren't designed to argue against it when we see its truth. We're designed to accept it and say 'oh gosh, righto' - so the logic of getting rid of your emotional baggage, going through the offloading, accepting your feelings, earthing them... it all makes perfect sense and it's all very effective.
It's like a humungous spring clean in a hoarder house. You never know what you'll find, but everything you bang into and deal with changes you, and heals you, and brings you back to simplicity, which is I think where sanity lives.
As to your belief or not belief in God, maybe that's a story for another day. Maybe now's not a time in your life to argue the case. Maybe your sense of him being there will return, or maybe it won't. But you're where you are now, getting through what you're getting through now. :)
As to making this site work, when you're on the depression page it should have a box with a + sign on it that you push to make new posts. Up to the top right will be your ID you can click on to find out if people have friended you, sent you hugs, etc. Beside that to the left should be an envelope which you can click on to see private messages.
fiddle around with the site and click on everything. There's nothing you can't back out of if you realise you don't want to do it. :)
there are many forums and environments where religious people can go and discuss the specific problems they have among atheists, but it's never taken seriously when atheists try to do the same.
Each group thinks they're right. Each group feels they have the answer. neither group, when they want to discuss their problems, is attempting to insult any other group - but we are speaking to each other from our own perspective.
So an atheist isn't have a conversation about their discoveries in order to waylay and trap any christian into losing their faith. We're just trying to figure stuff out.
And it was very kind of you, from your position as a Christian, to have compassion for it. The other lady you responded to I think probably thought I was attempting to convince her of something?
I have no desire to convince any christian to stop believing. I was trying to help Drugonev who appears to have taken the red pill and now has to learn to live outside the matrix.