"Codependent No More" helped me a lot. It is possible to rewrite those old tapes that we play to ourselves. For me, good books, a great therapist and working a 12 step program is helping me to do just that.

It is not about the shame actually belonging to the abuser. Everybody knows that it does. That does not translate into emotional experience. Rape victims, for example, feel shame. They know this is not rational and that the rapist is shameful.

A great deal of scientific evidence points to feelings causing thoughts, not the other way around. So not all people can control their feelings by controlling their thoughts. I find this is often an occasion for yet more shame: I SHOULD be able to control my thoughts and feelings.

Precipitating an emotional and spiritual experience is a more sure way, in my view, of ridding oneself of shame, than trying to reason one's way out of it. That is why I recommend the 4th and 5th steps for this. As well as anything else that works, of course.

I just did a great read from "Beyond Codependency" on shame. So much valuable info. Basically, it explained the difference between shame and guilt. That shame can come from a look, a tone of voice or for me, someone elses silence. The silence feeds my feeling insignificant (undervalued). Anyway, it says to get angry at the shame. Tell it to go away, etc. Hope this helps. It helped me.

I love that saying;

"Get angry at the shame."

The unhealthy shame that other people put onto us includes us getting angry at the person(s) that gave us their dirty shame.

Anger and angry does not mean taking revenge.

And I like what "NoOneLeft" said in that some of the shame does still belong to our self and we must accept our own shame and deal with it.

That is so very true.

"NoOneLeft" said to use the 4th and 5th steps for this, and I agree, but I would add that I say it includes the 4th through the 10th step in addressing our own shame, link the 12 steps here below;

www.12step.org/The-12-Steps.html

Dealing with our own shame and embarrassments is a big part of healing.

I like the fact that some famous people like Oprah Winfrey tells about her being abused and even raped as a child and I would say that she must have over come a lot of her shame and the shame imposed upon her and that shame does not stick to Oprah, because we know that she was only a child and the abuser did the shame and the abuser deserves the shame and not the victim.

Some see it as easier for famous Oprah but in fact she has the entire world watching her and that does not make facing shame an easier task.

President Rosevelt (1933-1945) was ashamed of his disability (polio) and so he would hide the fact that he used a wheel chair from the public.

Shame is a powerful influence on both the rich and the poor, the high or the low.

To me, shame is a mental (imaginary) construct and creation. It is not a fact, it's a belief. beliefs can be changed. a lot of the shame is based on what people may 'think' and 'feel' about the shamed person. If I'm codep and still want to believe I can control other's thoughts, I'd be in trouble still. Shame is an illusion that's chosen, in my experience, and involves the ego identity. "You can be happy again no matter What" by Richard Carlson helped some of us to gain control of our thinking system. Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth" has helped with terminatinf the ego identification for others.

You guys have all made valid and helpful points. Thank you so much. Please continue the replies...I'm absorbing all the info here. Hugs to all!

That comment you made about being "percieved as weak" really sticks to me.

I use to see myself as strong for hiding my feelings and protecting my shame and do not talk about anything of real importance.

I saw myself as strong but in fact I was very weak.

Some people see me as weak since I do those things like talk feelings and face up to shameful stuff and now I talk about real stuff.

So now some others still see me as weak but I feel very strong myself because I know I faced down the demons.

The opinions of others and the perceptions of people are rather peculiar things.

An old Chinese proverb goes like this: The greatest of errors is to under-estimate an opponent.

So those that see me as weak based on my recovery are very much mistaken.

One of the most useful tools that I have found that helps is journaling..even if it's a few words a day..or even jot my feelings down you would be amazed how much poison that can be released with just a few strokes of a pen..or in this case keystrokes..I have recently started a new book called "the Feeling Good Hand Book" by David D Burns. Inside it has a mood log that helps keep track of daily emotions and situations that can cause anxiety..great book..( I found it at a local thrift shop where my fiance works as a driver in the self help area. I love trift shops..!!!lol

As to your first question about shame..I think that once we put things in their proper perspective about another's behaviour ie: We ARE NOT responsible for another's actions helps with the feeling of shame, codependant have the tendancy to take on the weight of world on our shoulders which includes feeling responsible for another's actions when in reality we dont have too. Just remebember the only actions/reactions you are responsible for are your own..no one elses..

Booky in response to the "percieved weak" comment, I have recently realized how strong I actually am. I'm facing my demons...we all are. My friends and family are still in the "dark" so to speak concerning their issues. Some are there b/c they are not ready and others have no clue. So thx for reminding me of how strong I/we are. It takes courage to change and to accept we can't change anyone except ourselves. God bless to all for your words.

Hey I'm Japanese. Shame is my middle name. Shame about having mental issues, shame about not "being successful", shame about being alive. I've read the books and yet the shame is deeply ingrained in my psyche.

SHAME AND GUILT RULED MY LIFE....

the 12 step fellowship taught me how to let go of it and recreate my life and no longer wear the shame anf guilt...
hugs
james

The best book on this subject is Healing the Shame that Binds you by Bradshaw.

Shame seems to be the gooey core that keeps all my codependence "stuff" around. I can only fight it a little at a time. I can relate to feeling ashamed for being weak. Shame is a crippler. Having any sort of belief in God has helped me, particularly from a love/grace perspective, and being able to disagree with the church I grew up in. Shame city, that one!

Wow all responses have been incredibly helpful. THANK YOU ALL. Please continue to reply. I've read the book the shame that binds us. its been very enlightning. i've been going to al-anon meetings although b/c of hurricane gustuv i've missed a few of them. i've been seeing more and more how blessed i truely am. And that includes this site. Thx for all your support.
HUGS TO ALL!!!