Breakups & Divorce Support Group
Just broke up with someone or in the midst of a difficult divorce? Breaking up is difficult no matter what the circumstances are. They say that time heals all wounds, but sometimes a listening ear or a hug can work wonders for the heart. Whether you need a place to vent, someone to hold you to No Contact, or need advice about what to do, we're here to help.
I feel very strange writting on a public forum for the first time about something so personal but I truly need some guidance and found this site after researching if someone had a similar situation.... so here it goes.
I have been with my husband for 7 years, married for 3. Our relationship like any other has had its bumps, but overall I feel as though it has been amazing. I am grateful for all of the things we have accomplished, for the major successes we have built over the years (we have a very sucessful business together) for the love between us, and we have been extremely open with each other in terms of talking things out, working through major stresses all this time etc.
I know my husband loves me, and not from the point of view of he just says so, but he truly makes me feel like I am his whole world by including me in all he does, wanting to spend time with me even just watching a movie or taking walks, investing into our future because he wants me to be safe etc. all these things show me his appreciation.
The issue I am having is that he has anger and perhaps I am too sensitive due to my background, but anger has a really negative effect on me.
A bit of background: I had a terrible relationship with my mom where she would talk down to me, call me horrible curse words and names, drag me by my hair around my house etc. This instilled in me almost an allergic reaction to anger or being talked down to. I cannot stand it, I can't really explain it properly, but its almost as if I see someone who says they love me expressing anger towards me in a negative way I get completely drained by it. (I am not crazy to say that no one can be angry around me, I mean more intense displays). The issue for me is that being cursed at and belittled brings me back to being a kid and feeling so unloved by my mom, like something was wrong with me. As an adult, being cursed at by my husband feels so ironic, how can he say he loves me, and I see with his actions that he does, but there is such a disconnect when he is angry. I feel as though he hates me.
For example, my husband and I were in an argument years back ( I cannot remember the exact cause of the argument as I write this, but we were driving and he almost crashed the car with us in it because he was yelling at the top of his lungs, to the point where he could not pronounce the words correctly so naturally it was not a good state to drive in). When talking about this later on, his first response was something along the lines of "I was pushing his buttons" this response makes me feel completely helpless because I think that my life will alwasy be like this in this marriage. There will always be something I have done that will push his buttons, and instead of his focus being on fixing his anger, it is on how I should not push his buttons. I did not see this as a normal reaction no matter how angry you are. I forgave him because after talking through it, and telling him that it was unfair for him to put his anger on me, he apologized, said he makes no excuses for his anger but that he cannot control it, and that he almost crashed the car because he was trying to do a sharp turn specifically because he realized he was in no stage to drive and he did not want to hurt us. So I thought okay, you know what he understands the problem, we can get over it.
Another time also after an argument he put his whole upper body out the window and said " I will kill myself and break everything in this F'ing house" as he paced back and forth, his eyes enraged. I was scared as heck. These are the only 2 major incidents in 7 years. Of course there are small arguments, but that is normal in any marriage. The above are the major things where I have literraly felt scared.
He has never hurt me physically, never thrown something at me, etc. The fact that he admits his anger is an issue and says he is trying to work on it and that he used to be much worse makes me do my best to understand him. He says "your way of expressing your frustration is crying, (I do cry ALOT as a way to cope when I am overwhelmed) mine is anger" "I am not saying that my anger is right, I am not glorifying it, I am asking you not to push my buttons if you know that I get angry". When he tells me this, as a rational person I usually try to look within and change the things that I know upset him, but something always feels off about his response, because I cannot look at anger and the way he reacts the same as me crying it out. Am I being unfair?
The most recent incident truly has me questioning whether or not I should stay. And let me preface by saying that it is bot because the incident was particularly grave, it seems stupid even in retrospect, but because it made me feel like garbage. Here is what happened:
We went on a work trip where he had to meet with the client and the agreement was that I would wait for him outside. We share one phone, which I had on me, so I had to stay close by the area so that I could make sure to see him when he got out . After 40 minutes of waiting I got extremely lightheaded and hungry (because I was waiting in the sun) so I went next door to where he was to get us some bagels. As soon as I stepped into the store, I had a nagging feeling, if he comes out in the 5 minutes that I am in the store, he will probably be upset, but he will understand because I am really feeling crappy. Of course the bagels are taking super long so I step out to check if he is out, and he was looking for me, he looks super angry and motions me to come over, but I had not yet paid so I signal him to give me one second and run back into the store to rush the clerk. I was already really anxious for making him wait, and of course, almost like a movie moment the clerk is taking super long and the place is packed. He storms into the bagel shop furious and starts cursing at me "what the f*** is wrong with you, are you f***ing retarted (everyone turns around to look I was so embaressed) and he storms out, we walked for about 2 blocks where he just unleashed his cursing calling me retarded, "this is why I can never trust you, this is why the business is a problem, you cannot do anything right, motherf***er etc. I am trying to explain to him I was really hungry and lightheaded and he was taking long, but he was not having it. I finally have had it and tell him to stop yelling at me in public or I would leave, and he said to leave, so I did and took the train home.
Looking back on the incident, I know I could have handled it better. I could have stepped out of the store and told him I was waiting for the bagels because he had no clue why I went back into the store and he had already been looking for me for about 5 minutes so I know he was angry. I guess it just baffled me that he would do that to me in public. Maybe it makes me sound like a real dummy because I care about the public aspect, but its more than that. In my mind there is no reason in this world, even if he was looking for me to treat me like that in front of other people. I would have accepted it 100% had he had the self control to tell me in our home, look that was really spacey what you did, I am angry at you etc. But I realized the lack of control he has to curse at me for 2 blocks in the middle of super busy street as if it is normal.
Like I said, the incident is not particuraly grave, and I read the posts and see that so many ladies go through WAY worse so it makes me feel crazy thinking that I want to end the marriage but it is truly how I feel. Not because of this incident alone, but because despite what he tells me I do not feel like he will change. There will always be an excuse.
Again, this time after I told him that I did not think this was a normal response, he said he makes no excuse for his anger, but that if I know things like this make him angry, why did I not just leave the bagels. He said he felt as though the bagels were more important to me than him. That was the FURTHEST thing from my mind. I did not for a second think these bagels are more important than him waiting for me. I was flustered knowing that he was probably going to be really upset when I stepped out of the store, and I literally did not think of just leaving the store in that moment.
I feel like I am making a big deal knowing that so many people go through way worse situations, but I feel so deflated thinking that this will never change, and on the other hand I feel like this is a silly reason to get away from an otherwise amazing marriage.
Maybe some of you will have a laugh, the randmon internet lady ending a perfectly good marriage over a bagel fight, but seriously any feedback is appreciated.
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I'm feeling down,, and got alot on my mind right now. I got grief going on, on top my depression and anxiety and now I got to worry about somewhere to live since I can't afford living here since my mom passed. So many bad things have happened since my mom passed. One thing after another it seems. Yesterday our fence fell from a storm that hit, had to call someone to prop it up. Thank...
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Just wanted to give a thank you to Mid, Arfie, Malibumark, Greeneyes, Mlro, Girlincalif, and Suncloudjd! You all always have such helpful tips and advice, but I always forget to write on my posts when I see you post, lol. I would lose my head if it wasn't attached to my body, lol. Thank you all so much! I'm starting to use my AI app as a sounding board again. I used to use it as that before...
- I'm with someone who acts exactly the same way. It is unacceptable behavior and you are walking on eggshells with him.
- no I don't believe you should leave the marriage but yes I do believe that you should stand your ground.
- you're a grounded person I can tell from your language and using terms such as "I am grateful" so you know how to create the best life for you.
- you're like me, you want to run, you want to push him away, you want to chalk it up as he'll never change! Because of the abuse from your childhood you're scared. Therefore is also time to face you.
- when you stand up to him it's not being mean, it's not being rude, it's being honest. His behavior was unacceptable to be cursing at you in public like a child. I just stood up to my guy and I feel a whole lot better because he was taking his frustrations out on me bc if recent difficulties that he was going. I through it was all my fault but in reality it wasn't and I let him know that. You being hungry is not your fault! And those were the exact words I would have said to him case closed.
- you're not some strange internet lady. I'm here because of my argument that I had with him last Friday, where I stood up for myself and I don't regret one second of it; it was a stepping stone in the right direction!
- be grateful that you found this site and the support and tell him that he needs to revisit the things that makes him angry without hurting others. He needs grounding, making threats to harm himself is unhealthy Behavior. Stop the threats of leaving him I need to do the same. It sounds like he might be narcissistic and you codependent. I'm in the same boat only we both have learned over the years to develop, and ground ourselves and now we're both faced with old habits that we both know we need to change to move forward.
- you are already doing awesome next time stand up to him be firm without being rude and everything will work out don't run stay there!
You a lot. I went for two years before my ex left
And i was no longer a doormat. He was in AA to
My alanon it still did not help the marriage.
We both come from the same type of upbringing
And thats usually who you will marry some one that
feels Familiar.
Often anger issues are very deeply rooted and he
has to Want to change. You can only change and fix
yourself not him or your marriage and you can keep
Walking on egg shells so his anger does not erupt.
That really does not solve the true problem or help
You.
My guess he has Untreated childhood wounds and
he is acting them out on you and in his life. Marriage
counseling at this stage would not be helpful. HUGS
Second and more important, is your relationship with husband, your emotional health...and Most Important You Physical Safety.
My thought, No One has the right to speak as he spoke to you, in private or in public...If the outbursts have been coming more frequently, not at explosive, but under lying anger, my thought would be for your safety.
I learned a Long time ago, when dealing with Anger or Alcohol...a person in rage...no matter how hard you try, you can't get through to them....The best bet is to just walk away.
I have lived with fear and with rage...in the end, I made it plain, you threaten me, I call the cops and would lock myself into my bedroom...continued yelling, banging on the door...I Would Not Respond...by responding I fueled the anger....with silence there was no one to fight except himself. Living and walking on egg shells is no way to live.
You wrote he is aware of his anger and is working on it...is he in therapy, does he take medication, is he dx'd with some type of illness? If not in therapy, I'd suggest something that has changed my life and the way I deal with my emotions and with relationships...It's called DBT...here is a link...I swear by dbt, and by using the tools, my life has been changed, as my relationships. By creating emotional and physical boundaries, keeping a level head and refusing to partake in rage...I've found peace of mind and control over my thoughts and feelings...I can't change Anyone...I can only change myself and choose today to not engage in emotional/physical warfare with another human...I have self-respect now. There is a lot involved with this program, I've been learning and living it since 2010...best learned in a group setting. I don't have BPD....I did have codependency, anger, and a host of other negative emotions, especially Fear. Best of luck!
http://dbtselfhelp.com/html/site_map_text.html
My ex totally ignored me, was indifferent to me. Would not do things with me and the kids unless it was going to a baseball game once a year which I planned (but then he would sit with other people if we went with people we knew, or would pace because he was desperate for a cigarette). Aside from vacations where he had to be with me, we did something as a family a few times a year, tops, and it was always me convincing him to go with us because it would be fun. He coached some of the kid's teams, but that was with them, not me, we had to drive separately. We NEVER went out alone together, never, not even for a walk. I stopped asking eventually. Looking back, I don't think he loved me. He needed me. He saw me as his caretaker. He was the teen who is either never home, or when home, was locked up in his room playing video games (in his case, parked on the couch watching tv 24x7), never interacting with his parents. But he was no teen, he was my husband, supposedly my partner. So, no physical abuse except three "minor" incidents (blocking my path and knocking things out of my hands), done in private. No yelling - my family, neighbors and friends thought he's a great guy (at least I thought they did. I've come to learn otherwise since the divorce).
The thing is, he can't yell, or otherwise express anger in a healthy way. So, instead of screaming and cursing at me as yours does, he subverts his anger and expresses it in what appears to be innocent, but are truly unhealthy ways. He "forgets" to do things I've asked, or things others have asked (because he never wanted to do them in the first place but in order to play the nice guy, he agrees). He procrastinates to the point of financial loss or detriment to himself because he never learned how to problem solve with people. He shuts down communications anytime he feels a situation is escalating. It's passive aggressive behavior. And not just once in awhile because it's the easy way out, since we all do passive aggressive things from time to time. His behaviors are a way of life, his protocol for managing people. His actions never matched his words, and he always had an excuse for this when I would point things out. He never could come clean, so I stopped even bringing up anything to him. He was happy doing what he wanted, with no regard to anyone else. He could stay safe that way.
On the surface, I convinced myself that our marriage wasn't that bad. For years, I fooled myself into thinking this. We had two kids, I was afraid of divorce. As the years rolled on, the lack of a healthy relationship really started to pull me down. I told him how unhappy I was, he agreed to marriage counseling. I asked him to set it up, told him I'd be there. I didn't set it up myself because I knew if I did, he'd forget the appointments. Of course, he never set anything up. It would have meant facing his demons, putting our relationship out on the table and examining it, as I had been doing privately. More years rolled by, more empty promises to set up marriage counseling. His avoidance behaviors were escalating all the time. I fell into what I think is called situational depression. I don't know how long I was there, but I realized I had to get out, no matter how hard. Once I put divorce on the table, he told me he'd get the kids and they would be better off without me, because I was crazy. WTF? One moment he says to others that I'm a great mom and now privately to me says I'm so bad that the court won't give me custody? This scared me into inactivity for about a year, because I believed him. Passive aggressives can be convincing, they twist logic and facts so often, and losing my kids was my biggest fear in the world. This thought process of his, that I was crazy, partly comes out of him witnessing me being angry, and expressing it directly through words. Yes, sometime I yell. Shocker. If I do, I apologize afterwards and try to explain the root cause of my anger. I don't scream and curse at the top of my lungs, I'm in full control of what I'm saying. I'm just talking about regular stuff regular people argue about. He can't handle any of that, thinks it's psycho. Expressing anger in any overt way means a person is psycho, to him.
Eventually we went to the marriage counselor, which I set up. He "forgot" appointments, denied that she gave us homework to work on. Sigh. More avoidance. I knew then and there that I had to pursue divorce. The counselor was the one who used the term passive aggressive, and she was dead on. Yes, my husband didn't beat me, worked 5 days a week, loved his kids, was home most nights (albeit uncommunicative watching tv), But he couldn't communicate with me. I don't know for sure, but I think he didn't love me. He didn't respect me. He perhaps didn't even like me. Or maybe just being personally intimate with someone was too much for his psyche. I don't know, will never fully understand it or him. What I'm trying to say in so so many words is this: if you feel a relationship is wrong, it IS wrong for you!! It's evident that this is not an idea that suddenly popped into your head. What you're experiencing is emotional abuse, slow painful consistent emotional abuse, same as what I experienced. Emotional abuse is devastating. There may not be bruises to show people, but there are emotional scars. You don't have to continue this way.
I did do as miranda suggested, which was to marry into what I had come from. My parents didn't communicate, my emotional needs as a child were never met. I married into a situation where my emotional needs still weren't met. Duh! I was my own parent as a child, and I became my spouse's parent, in a way. Yuck. Now, armed with self understanding, I will be smarter with my interpersonal relationships going forward. I do think you need to establish boundaries, but if he crosses those boundaries, you have to be ready to deal with the previously stated repercussions. You have to follow through, so be prepared to do so, otherwise, those are just empty words. It's good to recognize your issues with how you respond to anger, and I would suggest meeting with a counselor, or at the very least, reading up on it. As far as your husband, you can not change him. No amount of understanding on your part, no amount of you accepting blame for his actions will turn this marriage around. Good that he is somewhat able to control his anger in some situations, but yes, this is not a "favor" he grants you. You did not win a prize, or a reprieve, because he "held it in". And really, does he hold it in (bad) or let it out through other non-harmful channels (good)?
Don't let him convince you that you're lucky because this time he did not lose his temper. He HAS to get at his core anger issues. Period. You have to get at your core issues. If neither of you do, you're stuck like this indefinitely, and things will downward spiral. If one of you does and the other doesn't, there will probably come a point where one of you leaves. If both of you get help for your issues, then you stand a change for rebooting your marriage.
I wish you all of the strength in the world. Define your happiness, never stop reaching for it.
Therapy is so expensive so I am seeking advice from people that offer some unbiased clarity on the situation.
#Torn
Second, I was very insecure. If I was disappointed or surprised by someone's actions, I blamed the person for my emotional response. I apologize for the sardonic humor, but I had to laugh a little when I read that your husband doesn't make excuses for his anger, but in the same breath blames you for *making* him angry.
Third--and the means by which I justified my outbursts--is I expected the people with whom I was closest to accept me in my rawest form. I regarded friendships and intimate relationships as "safe zones" where I could lash out and it be okay. But I was devoid of empathy. I never considered how the outbursts impacted others.
But finally, an amazing and patient woman made me understand her fear and anxiety that she experienced when I acted this way. I loved her dearly and didn't want to be the cause of her pain. So we struck a balance--devised ways for me to lash out without lashing out at her. Of course, I implemented the strategy with others. In time, I realized that I got nothing out of having no target for my anger. I came to understand how my short temper and rigid perspective were the causes; I was the problem. It didn't take long before I lost my interest in the anger, lightened up, and found a great deal of peace and good humor.
If you truly care for him, try to work with him. But don't fool yourself to think you can "fix" him. He'll only change if he wants to. And I tell you this--after seeing my way clear to empathy and being able to feel the pain that I caused so many, I assure you no one deserves to be treated that way.
Wishing you the best.