They realize it's wrong while they're doing it Wind, but they rationalize it with all kinds of convoluted excuses. you're right when you say it doesn't matter, the damage is done.

And ding dong, there's the daily double Alex. I bet everything that they have been physical.

If she's not willing to go to counseling with you to work on the marriage then there really isn't much you can do to save the relationship. Listen to Jaken and seek therapy for yourself.

Hugs

unless ur fucking the other person or swaping spit with the other person its not cheating
its not their fault that u screwed up so bad they want to spend quality time with someone else it wasn't my fault that i chose to be on the puter talking to dead heads rather watch tv with him because he was never home

It is cheating IMO. Take care of yourself. It is important to keep the relationship as friendly as possible for your sons sake but try to work on your healing... best wishes...

zigy you sound like you have it nailed.

O.O

Notsomuch

Physically cheating, no. But I would have to go with some others and say it's emotionally cheating.

We just had a very good "closure" type conversation. Except that I very non-confrontationally (even pre-admiting fault) asked her twice if she had romantic feelings for the guy. Both times she swore he was just a friend. (She doesn't know that I know)

I know that sounds normal for someone that cheats, but she is the most honest person I've ever known. (well, not anymore I guess) It is a huge breach of her ethics to say this. It is really not like her at all to directly lie like that. I don't think she lied to get herself out of trouble or anything, not really sure why.. guilt? Not being honest with herself?
I digress... it doesn't matter now. I guess it's another wake up call that something really is wrong with her, not just me being overly judgmental.

I still feel guilty though. If I had been there for her, or not driven her away... I know that's like victim talk or whatever, but that's what's going through my mind.

I have so much respect for those of you that have already gone through all this. Holy crap...

Well, he wasn't there for me either, but I honored my vows.

Good luck Wind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pFrkC7PFHc

I can't say whether it's cheating but it is certainly a major threat to your marriage. She will fantasize about this guy and start to compare you to him unfavorably. Eventually the opportunity may present itself and she will fall prey to the fantasy.

How can you compete with something that's not even real. He doesn't fart in her dreams. He is never imagined taking out the garbage with sweaty armpits. Somehow she needs to see the OM for what he really is: someone that is willing to destroy her family. He's completely guilty for not setting her straight if she's writing romantic poems to him and that makes him a predator in my opinion. Any decent man would immediately back away from this situation but he remains on the sidelines waiting for you to falter so that he can exploit things. Somehow she needs to have this bubbble popped.

Boy this thread sure hit home-my marriage of 34 years is gone because of an emotional affair. Anyone interested in learning more really should research this subject. No it does not bring them back but it will help you to see why you can't "win" them back either. Juliet Someday I get from your responses that you maybe feel like the wandering of the heart can be justified because the other half was not responsive to their spouses needs, That is probably why most of us are on here--we didn't meet the needs of the other one in our life in some way. I get that and accept my responsibility for my part in my failed marriage but I still am waiting (not holding my breath) for his acceptance in that by allowing someone else to become the sounding board, companion and lover (even if only in his mind) in our marriage he destoyed our marriage and life. If your needs are not being met you are required to do everything possible to get your partner to fully understand what you are thinking/feeling---honesty is a must here. You may not be able to save the marriage but you can help save some of the insanity. My theory on the "greener grass" is the only reason that the grass is greener on the other side is because there is more bullshit on that side. If you are finding yourself talking to someone other than your spouse about things that you feel you should hide from your spouse you are doing something wrong--call it what you want, affair or friendship, but it is WRONG!!!! Sorry to go on but as you can see this one really gets to me.

BIG TRIGGER! My stbx's physical affair was an emotional affair for years before I realized. She was my best friend, they were close, no big deal. Ha, until I went to a party with my stbx, her and her stbx. We were sitting around a fire pit in the back yard and the guy sitting next to me hit on me. I looked at him and said I'm married. He asked me why my husband wasn't with me. I told him he was and showed him who he was. He said Oh, I thought that was her husband. That was when I realized how much more than "just friends" they were. Emotional affairs can do much more damage than physical affairs, IMO.

I guess the worst part is that I know now that I'm not going to take her back after she realizes that this divorce, and being with him, isn't going to change anything. It's going to take a while in her new relationship (thats not going to happen, they're just friends) to realize that, IF she realizes that. She'll probably just blame him like she blames me, blame it on all men being pigs, or whatever other rational she can come up with.

It is cheating because it is a betrayal of trust. If it is something one cannot comfortably admit to their significant other then one has to ask themselves, "Why can't I admit this" and the answer is obvious, because it is wrong and it is cheating.

I think I was thinking along the lines of pianogirl....it is the energy someone is putting into that outside relationship that is damaging to your committed relationship....

Say you are having an emotional affair...Instead of talking to your spouse, you are talking to this other person. Instead of flirting with or daydreaming about your spouse, you are putting that energy into someone else. That is eventually going to have an effect on the committed relationship, because it is receiving less and less attention from you, as you would focus your attention on this outside person. How can that not be destructive to your relationship? While the new person gets all the new thoughts and attention, the old relationship gets less and less.

and what desertmouse said....can you admit it? why not?

I'm so tempted to send this thread to my ex.

It was an emotional affair that broke us up. He still refers to it as an "encounter" with a woman that he doesn't understand. He's emotionally immature. If his first thought was to bring *her* gifts from his trips away, and text *her* when he was feeling low and needed emotional support, and pushed me away when I offered it to him or asked him for some myself? That's cheating.

He did it with his ex before me and I should have seen the signs. He was totally incapable of seeing when a woman was reaching out platonically to offer her sympathy, and when she's reaching out as his partner. They're one and the same to him. I've even considered that the attraction between them was all in his head. No matter, it is still cheating.

The same goes for your stbx. Calling a friend to talk about panic attacks is one thing; writing love poems about him and fantasising about kissing him, that's emotional infidelity.