Oops.. I didn't realize you were referring to sex in the marriage. Kinda overlooked that post.

Ahh.. I don't have an answer for you there buddy =(

Sex is only one aspect. I can relate this post to many other instances...

what do you mean by perform a miricle? what exactly dose that intale? i mean if that was my wife i'd be a miricle performing MF'r

performing a miracle means that I would have the power to make someones life magically perfect...

which you don't and neither does anyone else in existence. It's ok to be human, Rman, we all are.

A real Catch 22 situation would imply that you really had no recourse, as they are usually out of your hands.
This situation is in your hands. You do have some decisions to make, and granted they will not be easy. I guess you have to figure out how long you want a half life, then make decisions based on what you find out.
If nothing changes, everything stays the same. If you have tried counseling, and nothing has changed, then harder decisions are coming, and not making a decision is making a decision. Living by yourself is tough, but living death is tougher in my opinion.
All the best to you, Rman. You seem like a real decent guy, who is on the cusp of a big change.. Change is scary, but existing is exhausting.. Big healing hugs, Kimmee

Hey, Kimmee...thanks.
Change scares me only because I have two little girls that I must raise...

I know, Rman, and that is a huge concern, as I know how much they mean to you. You are such a caring guy and father, but I stayed in a bad marriage, and it was more damaging to mine.
One of them has now picked a bad guy to be in her life, a direct result of being raised by one.
I know that divorce is tough on children, but a loveless marriage, or one that has discourse in it does nothing to teach them of what real love and respect can be like.
Children truly learn what they live, so that is a huge consideration too. Sending you a huge healing hug. I can hear how hard this is for you! (((((Rman))))))

I hear ya Rman. "he who hesitates is lost"..

"He AND she who hestiate are fucked and going nowhere!"

pardon my language. Con

22???? You must have been calling me.

And yes it makes sense. My ex and I got to be like this at the end, and it killed the marriage.

I used to always...ALWAYS be the one to repair things when they went bad. Well he'd finally hurt me bad enough that I waited for him. And he never did. Oh a few half hearted attempts, but he had no clue how, and Blamed me when things he tried didn't work.

It was DS that taught me that I'm really not hard to make happy. Otherwise I would still be wondering if all of his claims were true....

This is a good post - because it hits home with the last two years of my marriage. The status quo -- was just that --- no move on either part. It didn't work and there wasn't a commitment to change it - either through counseling to get to the real underlying issues. And so it went on for me -- and it ate away (and the kids realized it). When you begin to lose yourself - you are no good for your children either.

Yet, I did just that for some years. I wanted my stbx to make the decision . He did by default eventually by having an affair again and letting me know that counseling would take too many years. I waited - he waited and ultimately the kids waited for some stability and a role model of what a relationship to be. I certainly contributed my share into what wasn't working as well. Neither of us could on our own - in the status quo -- seem to fulfull what the relationship needed to grow.

Now my kids are teens. And what is - is. It took me a long time to trust myself that I did give it my all. I'm a bit slow and sure.

The other day I just said to my kids (and I realized it was what it took me so very long to come to in my marriage). Lack of a decision is a decision -- For my stbx - it was -- she's not going to say I called it. For me, it was I want to know I did all the right things and tried and this is what we should do for the kids. In the end, I had to be the one who filed but in essence a decision had already been made. I just had to hold it out there for us to see.

What a tough spot - because I can hear how much your children mean to you and there's a real concern that this would be harmful to the kids and also your relationship with them. My kids viewed for a lot of years what a relationship should not be -- one that became full of detachment for too many years - scorn, manipulation, and not dealing with reality or truth. Tough times happen in marriages. But when it doesn't change and sets there -- for extended time... it taught them to avoid the realities, something about self worth, etc.

No easy answers. I wish ou strength.. I don't know your story to know if you want, wish or believe counseling to be useful for the marriage or yourself. In the end it was only by working on me that I could pluck the courage to move the status quo.

Agree with Strider on this. If we hesitate or even just stay stagnant, then we have lost the battle already.

Consider the matter, get wise counsel, and then move into decision making/action taking mode.

We must keep walking in the valley, otherwise we stay in the valley.

I was raised with parents who stayed together for the 'sake of the children'...they did not fool anyone. We hated the invisible monster named 'animosity'...I resented my mother for being a controlling, calculating manipulative woman who would horde and sneak money from him for a 'rainy day' and I grew to have a great disdain for my father as I saw him as a puppet on her string. The true essence of him was forever gone once he chose to 'sacrifice'....he gave up his life...FOR WHAT? We saw his light get dim and we saw our mother never stop punishing him.

In life, I sought out men who were strong willed, leaders and somewhat aggressive. I did not want a daddy like demeanor in a man. I did not want a weak man. I also did not want to be like my mother and I realize that I am like my father! I'm a push over, self sacrificing but also all the other wonderful traits he has. It took me a long time to realize that I have been so disappointed in my father for losing his light that I forgot to thank him for how loving he is and that I am glad he taught me to be kind, respectful, diplomatic, noble.

So, to make this story longer, my father finally divorced my mother 6 years ago after 57 years of marriage! Don't be fooled...the divorce affects everyone even when we are adults.

I asked my father what possessed him to leave so abruptly after so many years of misery. He chuckled and he said that while my mother went away to her European trip, he got out of his room *they lived in separate rooms for the last 2 years* and felt free! He said that he didn't get the ugly stares, he felt freedom to roam the house, sit in the family room and sit on his recliner and he felt free. He wanted to feel free for more than 3 weeks. He packed his things and moved the next day and never looked back.

I resented my parents for not their sacrifice that became our burden to bear.....TADA!

30 on 22

Bernie don't ever give me shit about nabbing on a serious thread....freaking mouse.