I know typos... make ya feel dumb when you really werent trying to be lol

I too agree with tour and you......her son's life should be higher on the list of priorities versus her belifes on this one.....and minnesota state law says that just using natural remedies isn't enough and will get her on charges of abuse and neglect! Go the state of Minnesota.....I'm off for lunch and a shower I will bbiab!

Tour, the article BP cited did say he had one treatment and was asked to continue. I am not saying either way is right or wrong, just that we all have a right to choose as with anything else. I dont know who here has had chemo but it is NO picnic by any means. We trust docs because in most cases we dont have a choice. If she was withholding treatment because she wanted her son dead, then I might disagree with her methods. I understand what it is to want to protect your child and I believe that is exactly what she thinks she is doing. I am sure at 13 he has some input with or without a reading disability.

It isnt what we believe for her but how we go about it that angers me sometimes. How we can sit in judgement when it is the very thing we bitch about every day on this board. Compassion is a better avenue to understanding and pursuading, not anger and judgmentalism about what kind of person she is.

I have a brain tumor and fibromyalgia it took me 15 doctors to get those 2 diagnoisis and before the dx came I had some pretty far fetched ones plus more than 1 doctor tell me its all in my head. Monday I was told I might have lung cancer and to get a 2nd opinion. I havent made that appointment yet and not sure I will as not all to sure I want to know this time around. My faith in the medical profession is sketchy at best. If there is a total chance that this boy can be healed then yes I think his mother and father need to have him have the chemo but if there is even the slightest chance that the cancer will not be cured then I think it comes down to quality and not quantity of life. I would hate to loose one of my girls to anything but if my faith was so insurmountable that I truly believed it could heal my child then I think I should be given that chance. Not saying that in the end the boy shouldnt have the chemo am saying that Big Brother (this time in the form of doctors) do not know everything

SB, I am sorry about what they told you Monday. It is something only you can choose to do one way or another and that is the beauty of it, you can choose. I hope it all works out for you. I will be thinking of you. Hugs

Christian Scientists do this as well. It is interesting how when faith and fact meet, many try to bend fact. And it is children who suffer, always children who suffer.

If an adult wants to do something like this to themselves, fine.

That said, faith has a large place in the world. There are far fewer mysteries in the world, we no longer say that the sun flies across the sky pulled by a god in a chariot. But, there is still plenty of room for faith. Facts don't have to negate faith, you don't have to for example, reject faith if you accept evolution or other science, other ideas that became accepted through repeated observation. It isn't a zero sum game

At the same time, I just saw a show on dying. It talked about how our doctors are trained to keep trying to save life even when it is too late. Thus, many of us experience unnecessarily expensive and traumatic deaths.

Well put free, it doesnt have to be all or nothing on either side. Most likely, based on research and the docs we see, I would encourage my sons to have chemo. I guess we just really dont know how we would feel unless we were actually in the middle of it.

For this woman, she obviously feels strongly about her faith in other healing methods. I just dont think we should judge her based on her choice because God knows I have made some bad choices and I thank God every day that I didnt have my children taken away based on my choices because someone else thought I should do differently. What if the woman never took her son to the docs? He did have one chemo treatment and we dont know for sure why she changed her mind. Maybe she doesnt have faith in the docs treating him, how do we know for sure?

um, not looking to start anything else here - & really, i do put a certain amount of trust in science, but it seems that alot of you aren't really questioning your faith in the infallibility of science. i mean, you're pretty much all saying "this is the truth, becuase it is an approach based on science", but to some people science is really just our secular religion. we have "faith" in science, so we see that it "works" - always. others have their faith in other things, & the world as they see it proves that they are right, too.

i'm just saying...

Well everyone has the right to believe in what they believe but I do not feel that it is the mothers right to deny treatment for her son. This is a matter of life or death. And trust me, I have seen people die with having treatments and I have seen people live with having treatments. My mother is one that is alive today because chemo saved her life. If there is a chance for this child then she is denying him of his right to live. Plus she is entirely breaking the law. She might as well come back and let the child have treatment. Cause either way if they find her they will arrest her and the child will end up getting the care that he needs. Regardless of belief or not.

2sides - all i am saying is that people who feel that science is a deception from the true faith could get the feeling of being horribly oppressed by this course of action.

what if it were turned around - the gov't & its laws are based entirely on literal transaltions from the Bible - it is after all the word of God, & in God we trust - not in God we trust but if the chips are really down i'm gonna go with science. anyway, you're kid is sick, you want to treat him with this radicalt herapy that includes - oh, lets say stem cells. the fundamentalist lawyers & law enforcment officials see this as criminal activity & discuss the options for what SHOULD take place with the fundamentalist faith doctors. they say - oh, an exorcism - which you know to be a physically rigorous punishing drill, & not one your son is liable to survive. basically, you KNOW - based on your scientific approach - that this therapy will KILL him. as a good mother, you fight FIGHT FIGHT it! you protect your son. all the media jumps on it - how could she!? is she not a good mother!? well, yes, the kid may die, but only if the Lord finds him to be evil - & then i guess that's what happens if you believe in science - right?

do you see what i'm talking about? i am sure that mom thinks she is doing the best thing for her son's survival. its not a selfish thing of "oh, my religion first, then my kids" - no, she is trying to save her kids as she knows how. we just don't agree with it, & we got the laws on our side.

To reply#19

Yes it did say that and it said that the treatment was successful...

Hey David, you make a very good point there. Science isn't infallible and doctors aren't infallible. But, they do base most decisions upon repeated observation.

That's all science is, a framework for testing theories and solving problems. You ask a question, can chemo help with some cancers, and you test that question again and again and again. It isn't some odd monolith, just a method for solving problems.

If this is indeed a relatively easily treated cancer, then the kid should get a shot at life. If it is too late and the cancer is too far gone, then the kid should be given the chance for a peaceful, pain free and dignified death.

My own people, Swedes, used to pray to Odin and Thor, then get worked up into mystic rages before charging into battle. Some of the most devout would charge into battle naked.

I like that admonition about praying, but keeping the powder dry. If I ever have to charge a shield wall, I'll wear armor.

I have to go with God created science and therefore expects us to use it...

I can't respond in long form because I am in and out, but have much more to say on this... Lol...

i agree with that Tour - & please don't misconstrue my comments to mean i do not believe in science, or that i believe in a fundamentalist reading of the Bible - i do not. i just thought the point was intersting, & that perhaps we could have some sympathy for what the mother feels she is doing here for her son.

& freeH - your people too? i thought only MY people (the Celts) charged in to battle naked - both men & women! & actually, it did work against armor. the Romans were scared shitless of us!