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Hi guys, I didn't want to see this buried in the debate thread, but that is where I'm coming from with this post. I am personally very fond of "adoption is an option". I love that. I love the idea of matching babies to loving families. (Also, I love being pregnant, and if my health were better, I would gladly be a surrogate mother, and not for money.)
A lot of anti-abortion people throw adoption out as an argument to ban abortion. Sounds good, but... I have been pregnant twice. The first time, I could have died in delivery. Noone knew I would have a retained placenta. But after about an hour of hemorrhaging, I was saved - yey. The second time, both me and the baby could have died from hemorrhage (a partially detached placenta). Were I to go into labor, anytime, unless really close to the hopital, I would have probably bled to death. The baby could not be born at all without a C-section - so no delivery in the ambulance or taxi or wherever. The baby would go with me. I aborted that second pregnancy - not an easy decision - and pretty late, too. None of this came up, and could not have been found out, until late in my fifth month.
Before my sad experience, a friend of mine, carrying twins, started bleeding for no reason, and lost 3 quarts of blood in 45 minutes. The doctors saved her and both babies with multiple transfusions. A couple of months after my ordeal, a friend of a friend actually died in delivery - hemorrhage again. There was nothing to predict her death. (In my case, the doctors could at least see that it was a possibility.)
So what's the point? Many people forget how big of a risk just being pregnant and delivering is. In less developed parts of the world, women die from pregnancies (mostly in childbirth) all the time. Worst case is Tibet, where 1 in 40 women will die due to pregnancy. I know, in Tibet (no medical care) I would be one of them. Very sobering. (BTW, the US is way behind Europe on that, I don't know why.) I talked about life and death matters, but there are also health issues - diabetes, blood clots (I've had that too, very lethal), eclampsia (also life-threatening) not to mention post-partum mental health issues (hello?). None of these are very rare, but are managed by doctors, for the most part successfully.
I want to say this again: pregnancy is NOT a trivial issue for a woman. Biologically, women are NOT designed to pop out babies SAFELY. There are reasons for that, but that's a different thread. Right now, I am married, we use two forms of birth control, and I know there is still a small risk of getting pregnant. I want to see abortion legal, as a backup option to protect my life and health. I don't want to be 20 weeks pregnant with a pulmonary embolism before my health is deemed in danger.
So, I told you my story, and expressed why I want to see abortion legal. Other people on the other thread have told of their story as an incest survivor, and would like to have abortion legal in such a case. There are doublessly others who were victims of rape, and want protection for rape victims. There are a lot of us here who are medically unable to care for themselves, let alone for a child with severe disabilities - it is much harder to find a loving, caring family to adopt a severely disabled child (I mean more severely disabled than having Down syndrome).
Everybody has a different story. I can not decide now what the answer to some future moral equation is going to be, and I don't trust anybody else to do it. That's why I believe the choice (one way or the other) should NOT be written in stone (law). Only those involved can solve their personal moral equation - they are the only ones responsible for it anyway, to the big guy above.
I am not posting this to change many minds, most people have them made up, and that's not going to change. But some of you, I know this for sure, some of you were not aware of how big of a health risk simply going through delivery is (or even just being pregnant) - even for healthy mothers. It is very small, but it is there. I want you to acknowledge this perspective, and then go on with your convictions, changed or not. My life was turned upside down, and I have a very personal experience that I need to share.
Bottom line:
Noone should be forced to go through delivery without their consent.
A lot of anti-abortion people throw adoption out as an argument to ban abortion. Sounds good, but... I have been pregnant twice. The first time, I could have died in delivery. Noone knew I would have a retained placenta. But after about an hour of hemorrhaging, I was saved - yey. The second time, both me and the baby could have died from hemorrhage (a partially detached placenta). Were I to go into labor, anytime, unless really close to the hopital, I would have probably bled to death. The baby could not be born at all without a C-section - so no delivery in the ambulance or taxi or wherever. The baby would go with me. I aborted that second pregnancy - not an easy decision - and pretty late, too. None of this came up, and could not have been found out, until late in my fifth month.
Before my sad experience, a friend of mine, carrying twins, started bleeding for no reason, and lost 3 quarts of blood in 45 minutes. The doctors saved her and both babies with multiple transfusions. A couple of months after my ordeal, a friend of a friend actually died in delivery - hemorrhage again. There was nothing to predict her death. (In my case, the doctors could at least see that it was a possibility.)
So what's the point? Many people forget how big of a risk just being pregnant and delivering is. In less developed parts of the world, women die from pregnancies (mostly in childbirth) all the time. Worst case is Tibet, where 1 in 40 women will die due to pregnancy. I know, in Tibet (no medical care) I would be one of them. Very sobering. (BTW, the US is way behind Europe on that, I don't know why.) I talked about life and death matters, but there are also health issues - diabetes, blood clots (I've had that too, very lethal), eclampsia (also life-threatening) not to mention post-partum mental health issues (hello?). None of these are very rare, but are managed by doctors, for the most part successfully.
I want to say this again: pregnancy is NOT a trivial issue for a woman. Biologically, women are NOT designed to pop out babies SAFELY. There are reasons for that, but that's a different thread. Right now, I am married, we use two forms of birth control, and I know there is still a small risk of getting pregnant. I want to see abortion legal, as a backup option to protect my life and health. I don't want to be 20 weeks pregnant with a pulmonary embolism before my health is deemed in danger.
So, I told you my story, and expressed why I want to see abortion legal. Other people on the other thread have told of their story as an incest survivor, and would like to have abortion legal in such a case. There are doublessly others who were victims of rape, and want protection for rape victims. There are a lot of us here who are medically unable to care for themselves, let alone for a child with severe disabilities - it is much harder to find a loving, caring family to adopt a severely disabled child (I mean more severely disabled than having Down syndrome).
Everybody has a different story. I can not decide now what the answer to some future moral equation is going to be, and I don't trust anybody else to do it. That's why I believe the choice (one way or the other) should NOT be written in stone (law). Only those involved can solve their personal moral equation - they are the only ones responsible for it anyway, to the big guy above.
I am not posting this to change many minds, most people have them made up, and that's not going to change. But some of you, I know this for sure, some of you were not aware of how big of a health risk simply going through delivery is (or even just being pregnant) - even for healthy mothers. It is very small, but it is there. I want you to acknowledge this perspective, and then go on with your convictions, changed or not. My life was turned upside down, and I have a very personal experience that I need to share.
Bottom line:
Noone should be forced to go through delivery without their consent.
Pro choice people are NOT heartless, we're just realists.
fey, be sure to talk to us if you need an ear to listen or a shoulder to cry on.
With love, Bobbi
I see both ends of the argument and I stand somewhere in the middle. Without "safe" abortions, women would do something anyway, they will get what they want despite the legality of it. I'd much prefer the woman who does not want to carry their child that they are safe. My friend has done many things to herself to avoid an abortion while she was pregnant..and yes she succeeded, and i just wish safety upon those who do not wish for their child, or cannot have a baby. I will do everything in my power to prevent myself from becoming pregnant because it is dangerous for me, that is even if I am fertile.
That plays another role in my pro-life side of view. The women who desperately wants a baby but can't have one...I will probably face that. Chemotherapy tends to destroy your eggs (since women are born with every egg they will ever produce, we don't make them like men make sperm), and I may not be able to have a child of my own. I want to (not this moment...in the future) but I know the chances of me having my own baby are slim to none, surrogacy or adoption are what I have as options, and with abortion adoption wouldn't be as possible.
Then with pro-choice nine months is a long time to suffer, a long reminder of something bad that may have happened. It may be dangerous and all of these other things...I don't know if you see my point of view...but this is my opinion.
Kyna, speaking of disability, Down syndrome is the least of it. Some (a minority) of those kids can get through school, hold jobs, take care of themselves to a certain level. Emotionally, they are probably more pleasure to be around than most of us, he-he.
When it comes to matters like this I will seek the bugs opinion over anyones.
I think you're saying that every human has the potential to be happy and satisfied with their life, THEREFORE each SHOULD be carried to term. I disagree with the "therefore/should" part.
For the record, I don't think her life, just like mine and yours, or anybody's, is worth much. There's six billion of us on this planet, that's way too many anyway. Yes, we are all unique, just like every grain of sand is unique, yet ultimately insignificant. My mother was in college when she had me, she should have aborted me, but didn't, got married instead. I don't wake up in the morning saying "Oh, I'm so glad she had me". If I weren't born, somebody else would have been later, and who is to say they wouldn't have been kinder, smarter, happier? My mother had two kids, because she wanted to have two, and was careful not to have three. So between having two now, or two later... Who cares? She would have never known the difference, and neither would I (cause I wouldn't have been born), nor would the rest of the world. I'm not so unique that the Earth would stop spinning if I were not gracing it's surface. (And, no, I don't believe I had an immortal soul at 8 weeks gestation. If you think you did, more power to ya.)
If you (or anyone) think I am wrong about the posting etiquette, by all means say so, just start a different thread, because it's a different topic.
Your opinions are duly noted.