Bipolar Disorder Support Group
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cb72
Hi guys, I didn't want to see this buried in the debate thread, but that is where I'm coming from with this post. I am personally very fond of "adoption is an option". I love that. I love the idea of matching babies to loving families. (Also, I love being pregnant, and if my health were better, I would gladly be a surrogate mother, and not for money.)
A lot of anti-abortion people throw adoption out as an argument to ban abortion. Sounds good, but... I have been pregnant twice. The first time, I could have died in delivery. Noone knew I would have a retained placenta. But after about an hour of hemorrhaging, I was saved - yey. The second time, both me and the baby could have died from hemorrhage (a partially detached placenta). Were I to go into labor, anytime, unless really close to the hopital, I would have probably bled to death. The baby could not be born at all without a C-section - so no delivery in the ambulance or taxi or wherever. The baby would go with me. I aborted that second pregnancy - not an easy decision - and pretty late, too. None of this came up, and could not have been found out, until late in my fifth month.
Before my sad experience, a friend of mine, carrying twins, started bleeding for no reason, and lost 3 quarts of blood in 45 minutes. The doctors saved her and both babies with multiple transfusions. A couple of months after my ordeal, a friend of a friend actually died in delivery - hemorrhage again. There was nothing to predict her death. (In my case, the doctors could at least see that it was a possibility.)
So what's the point? Many people forget how big of a risk just being pregnant and delivering is. In less developed parts of the world, women die from pregnancies (mostly in childbirth) all the time. Worst case is Tibet, where 1 in 40 women will die due to pregnancy. I know, in Tibet (no medical care) I would be one of them. Very sobering. (BTW, the US is way behind Europe on that, I don't know why.) I talked about life and death matters, but there are also health issues - diabetes, blood clots (I've had that too, very lethal), eclampsia (also life-threatening) not to mention post-partum mental health issues (hello?). None of these are very rare, but are managed by doctors, for the most part successfully.
I want to say this again: pregnancy is NOT a trivial issue for a woman. Biologically, women are NOT designed to pop out babies SAFELY. There are reasons for that, but that's a different thread. Right now, I am married, we use two forms of birth control, and I know there is still a small risk of getting pregnant. I want to see abortion legal, as a backup option to protect my life and health. I don't want to be 20 weeks pregnant with a pulmonary embolism before my health is deemed in danger.
So, I told you my story, and expressed why I want to see abortion legal. Other people on the other thread have told of their story as an incest survivor, and would like to have abortion legal in such a case. There are doublessly others who were victims of rape, and want protection for rape victims. There are a lot of us here who are medically unable to care for themselves, let alone for a child with severe disabilities - it is much harder to find a loving, caring family to adopt a severely disabled child (I mean more severely disabled than having Down syndrome).
Everybody has a different story. I can not decide now what the answer to some future moral equation is going to be, and I don't trust anybody else to do it. That's why I believe the choice (one way or the other) should NOT be written in stone (law). Only those involved can solve their personal moral equation - they are the only ones responsible for it anyway, to the big guy above.
I am not posting this to change many minds, most people have them made up, and that's not going to change. But some of you, I know this for sure, some of you were not aware of how big of a health risk simply going through delivery is (or even just being pregnant) - even for healthy mothers. It is very small, but it is there. I want you to acknowledge this perspective, and then go on with your convictions, changed or not. My life was turned upside down, and I have a very personal experience that I need to share.
Bottom line:
Noone should be forced to go through delivery without their consent.
A lot of anti-abortion people throw adoption out as an argument to ban abortion. Sounds good, but... I have been pregnant twice. The first time, I could have died in delivery. Noone knew I would have a retained placenta. But after about an hour of hemorrhaging, I was saved - yey. The second time, both me and the baby could have died from hemorrhage (a partially detached placenta). Were I to go into labor, anytime, unless really close to the hopital, I would have probably bled to death. The baby could not be born at all without a C-section - so no delivery in the ambulance or taxi or wherever. The baby would go with me. I aborted that second pregnancy - not an easy decision - and pretty late, too. None of this came up, and could not have been found out, until late in my fifth month.
Before my sad experience, a friend of mine, carrying twins, started bleeding for no reason, and lost 3 quarts of blood in 45 minutes. The doctors saved her and both babies with multiple transfusions. A couple of months after my ordeal, a friend of a friend actually died in delivery - hemorrhage again. There was nothing to predict her death. (In my case, the doctors could at least see that it was a possibility.)
So what's the point? Many people forget how big of a risk just being pregnant and delivering is. In less developed parts of the world, women die from pregnancies (mostly in childbirth) all the time. Worst case is Tibet, where 1 in 40 women will die due to pregnancy. I know, in Tibet (no medical care) I would be one of them. Very sobering. (BTW, the US is way behind Europe on that, I don't know why.) I talked about life and death matters, but there are also health issues - diabetes, blood clots (I've had that too, very lethal), eclampsia (also life-threatening) not to mention post-partum mental health issues (hello?). None of these are very rare, but are managed by doctors, for the most part successfully.
I want to say this again: pregnancy is NOT a trivial issue for a woman. Biologically, women are NOT designed to pop out babies SAFELY. There are reasons for that, but that's a different thread. Right now, I am married, we use two forms of birth control, and I know there is still a small risk of getting pregnant. I want to see abortion legal, as a backup option to protect my life and health. I don't want to be 20 weeks pregnant with a pulmonary embolism before my health is deemed in danger.
So, I told you my story, and expressed why I want to see abortion legal. Other people on the other thread have told of their story as an incest survivor, and would like to have abortion legal in such a case. There are doublessly others who were victims of rape, and want protection for rape victims. There are a lot of us here who are medically unable to care for themselves, let alone for a child with severe disabilities - it is much harder to find a loving, caring family to adopt a severely disabled child (I mean more severely disabled than having Down syndrome).
Everybody has a different story. I can not decide now what the answer to some future moral equation is going to be, and I don't trust anybody else to do it. That's why I believe the choice (one way or the other) should NOT be written in stone (law). Only those involved can solve their personal moral equation - they are the only ones responsible for it anyway, to the big guy above.
I am not posting this to change many minds, most people have them made up, and that's not going to change. But some of you, I know this for sure, some of you were not aware of how big of a health risk simply going through delivery is (or even just being pregnant) - even for healthy mothers. It is very small, but it is there. I want you to acknowledge this perspective, and then go on with your convictions, changed or not. My life was turned upside down, and I have a very personal experience that I need to share.
Bottom line:
Noone should be forced to go through delivery without their consent.
i guess that just proves i was wrong
You got attacked because you attacked. As ye sew, so shall ye also reap.
However, I have to say that you are the one who is ignorant on what over a third of the world believes. Prana means breath of life and also means soul. The soul is inextricably linked to that breath of life.
I can understand you may never have come across eastern philosophies or beliefs, but please don't call me ignorant because I have.
And yes, that kicking, moving baby is a fully functioning human baby without a soul...according to a large percentage of the people on this planet.
And cb is correct on the Catholic churches teachings. There is NO saving the mother at the expense of the baby. As far as limbo, it's still there as per Catholic church...no one told me it went away. (12 yrs. Catholic school)
You ask us about our facts, but where are you getting yours? I don't want to argue with you, but the ignorant comment pushed a button, sorry.
My question is would you let your daughter do drugs, then let her choose her own punishment.? Does the judge let her choose her own punishment if she gets caught by the cops? It's her body she's destroying. Her choice right?
Or what about the long-term affects? after we make abortion legal, who pays for it? sooner or later people are going to bitch about not having medical insurance to cover abortions and malpractice lawsuits, then the insurance companies hike up their rates, we complain about healthcare coverage AGAIN, then we raise taxes. So YOUR choice has now affected the rest of us.
Abortion = legal medical operation carried out by a licenced physician
Drugs = illegal practice
your argument = moot
Now speaking of birth, life and such... I was actually present at my friend's delivery - I was her support partner. I got to see is all up close. I was curious, since I was in too much pain to pay attention to anything at all when I was in delivery. I expected to witness the "miracle of life" or whatever, and it was very underwhelming in one way, and shocking in another. I believe everyone, pro-life or pro-choice should witness a birth before making up their minds (just like they should see what the embryo looks like at each stage of pregnancy). The baby coming out did not look alive AT ALL. It was grey/blue (all babies are that color before they start breathing on their own, because of the way the placenta works), squished in the vagina and not moving, not even the face, eyes, lips... (some do move), and did not look alive at all. It looked like a lump of flesh, and the wrong color too - for a moment. Once babies start breathing, they go pink very quickly, and once they get the vitamin K shot, they all cry. I just wanted to share this. To me it was very shocking and made me lose any qualms I had about being pro-choice.
even when you have been very careful
and use birth control and other means to keep from getting pregnant
so
i am probably pregnant right now
and the sleeping pill i take is a category x
and we all know lithium and lamictal can do terrible things to a fetus
so i will be getting an abortion in the next several weeks
and then dealing with the guilt for the rest of my life
but at least i won't have to raise a child with no chance of survival
so which will hurt more
terminating a pregnancy
or watching a child with multiple birth defects struggle to survive?