Bipolar Disorder Support Group
Bipolar disorder is not just a single disorder, but a category of mood disorders marked by periods of abnormally high energy and euphoria, often accompanied by bouts of clinical depression. This is the place to talk about your experience with bipolar disorder, learn from others' experiences, and find support.
cb72
Hi guys, I didn't want to see this buried in the debate thread, but that is where I'm coming from with this post. I am personally very fond of "adoption is an option". I love that. I love the idea of matching babies to loving families. (Also, I love being pregnant, and if my health were better, I would gladly be a surrogate mother, and not for money.)
A lot of anti-abortion people throw adoption out as an argument to ban abortion. Sounds good, but... I have been pregnant twice. The first time, I could have died in delivery. Noone knew I would have a retained placenta. But after about an hour of hemorrhaging, I was saved - yey. The second time, both me and the baby could have died from hemorrhage (a partially detached placenta). Were I to go into labor, anytime, unless really close to the hopital, I would have probably bled to death. The baby could not be born at all without a C-section - so no delivery in the ambulance or taxi or wherever. The baby would go with me. I aborted that second pregnancy - not an easy decision - and pretty late, too. None of this came up, and could not have been found out, until late in my fifth month.
Before my sad experience, a friend of mine, carrying twins, started bleeding for no reason, and lost 3 quarts of blood in 45 minutes. The doctors saved her and both babies with multiple transfusions. A couple of months after my ordeal, a friend of a friend actually died in delivery - hemorrhage again. There was nothing to predict her death. (In my case, the doctors could at least see that it was a possibility.)
So what's the point? Many people forget how big of a risk just being pregnant and delivering is. In less developed parts of the world, women die from pregnancies (mostly in childbirth) all the time. Worst case is Tibet, where 1 in 40 women will die due to pregnancy. I know, in Tibet (no medical care) I would be one of them. Very sobering. (BTW, the US is way behind Europe on that, I don't know why.) I talked about life and death matters, but there are also health issues - diabetes, blood clots (I've had that too, very lethal), eclampsia (also life-threatening) not to mention post-partum mental health issues (hello?). None of these are very rare, but are managed by doctors, for the most part successfully.
I want to say this again: pregnancy is NOT a trivial issue for a woman. Biologically, women are NOT designed to pop out babies SAFELY. There are reasons for that, but that's a different thread. Right now, I am married, we use two forms of birth control, and I know there is still a small risk of getting pregnant. I want to see abortion legal, as a backup option to protect my life and health. I don't want to be 20 weeks pregnant with a pulmonary embolism before my health is deemed in danger.
So, I told you my story, and expressed why I want to see abortion legal. Other people on the other thread have told of their story as an incest survivor, and would like to have abortion legal in such a case. There are doublessly others who were victims of rape, and want protection for rape victims. There are a lot of us here who are medically unable to care for themselves, let alone for a child with severe disabilities - it is much harder to find a loving, caring family to adopt a severely disabled child (I mean more severely disabled than having Down syndrome).
Everybody has a different story. I can not decide now what the answer to some future moral equation is going to be, and I don't trust anybody else to do it. That's why I believe the choice (one way or the other) should NOT be written in stone (law). Only those involved can solve their personal moral equation - they are the only ones responsible for it anyway, to the big guy above.
I am not posting this to change many minds, most people have them made up, and that's not going to change. But some of you, I know this for sure, some of you were not aware of how big of a health risk simply going through delivery is (or even just being pregnant) - even for healthy mothers. It is very small, but it is there. I want you to acknowledge this perspective, and then go on with your convictions, changed or not. My life was turned upside down, and I have a very personal experience that I need to share.
Bottom line:
Noone should be forced to go through delivery without their consent.
A lot of anti-abortion people throw adoption out as an argument to ban abortion. Sounds good, but... I have been pregnant twice. The first time, I could have died in delivery. Noone knew I would have a retained placenta. But after about an hour of hemorrhaging, I was saved - yey. The second time, both me and the baby could have died from hemorrhage (a partially detached placenta). Were I to go into labor, anytime, unless really close to the hopital, I would have probably bled to death. The baby could not be born at all without a C-section - so no delivery in the ambulance or taxi or wherever. The baby would go with me. I aborted that second pregnancy - not an easy decision - and pretty late, too. None of this came up, and could not have been found out, until late in my fifth month.
Before my sad experience, a friend of mine, carrying twins, started bleeding for no reason, and lost 3 quarts of blood in 45 minutes. The doctors saved her and both babies with multiple transfusions. A couple of months after my ordeal, a friend of a friend actually died in delivery - hemorrhage again. There was nothing to predict her death. (In my case, the doctors could at least see that it was a possibility.)
So what's the point? Many people forget how big of a risk just being pregnant and delivering is. In less developed parts of the world, women die from pregnancies (mostly in childbirth) all the time. Worst case is Tibet, where 1 in 40 women will die due to pregnancy. I know, in Tibet (no medical care) I would be one of them. Very sobering. (BTW, the US is way behind Europe on that, I don't know why.) I talked about life and death matters, but there are also health issues - diabetes, blood clots (I've had that too, very lethal), eclampsia (also life-threatening) not to mention post-partum mental health issues (hello?). None of these are very rare, but are managed by doctors, for the most part successfully.
I want to say this again: pregnancy is NOT a trivial issue for a woman. Biologically, women are NOT designed to pop out babies SAFELY. There are reasons for that, but that's a different thread. Right now, I am married, we use two forms of birth control, and I know there is still a small risk of getting pregnant. I want to see abortion legal, as a backup option to protect my life and health. I don't want to be 20 weeks pregnant with a pulmonary embolism before my health is deemed in danger.
So, I told you my story, and expressed why I want to see abortion legal. Other people on the other thread have told of their story as an incest survivor, and would like to have abortion legal in such a case. There are doublessly others who were victims of rape, and want protection for rape victims. There are a lot of us here who are medically unable to care for themselves, let alone for a child with severe disabilities - it is much harder to find a loving, caring family to adopt a severely disabled child (I mean more severely disabled than having Down syndrome).
Everybody has a different story. I can not decide now what the answer to some future moral equation is going to be, and I don't trust anybody else to do it. That's why I believe the choice (one way or the other) should NOT be written in stone (law). Only those involved can solve their personal moral equation - they are the only ones responsible for it anyway, to the big guy above.
I am not posting this to change many minds, most people have them made up, and that's not going to change. But some of you, I know this for sure, some of you were not aware of how big of a health risk simply going through delivery is (or even just being pregnant) - even for healthy mothers. It is very small, but it is there. I want you to acknowledge this perspective, and then go on with your convictions, changed or not. My life was turned upside down, and I have a very personal experience that I need to share.
Bottom line:
Noone should be forced to go through delivery without their consent.
Sorry it has be that way.
God..Thanks for that! I laughed. Im going through something right now and I needed that. But I gotta say I must be one sick puppy.
If it helps - very early, the embryos do not look human at all. Try to check out (when your stomach is in better shape) what they look like at weeks 4,5,6. (Week 6 of pregnancy is week 4 post-conception, because ovulation hapens at the end of week 2.) If a woman is on top of it, she can know she's pregnant at 5 weeks. If she's really, really, on top of it, she can know sooner, but such women are usually trying to get pregnant (I knew at 4 weeks each time). That early, surgery is not an option, but there is a pill that makes the uterus inhospitable, then nature takes its course. Would that be an option that's easier on your stomach? Not everyone can be on top of it, because of meds, irregular periods, birth control pill, lack of education, etc. but many can.
There was a point in my life though where this viewpoint changed. Suddenly I had to make the choice.
This was the birth of our youngest child, who is now a delightful six year old. However the birth itself had unforeseen complications and was VERY touch and go for my wife and child. Fourteen hours in hard labor and the contractions were getting weaker and weaker.
I was told that I may have to choose between them as my wife's blood pressure had reached a point where it must come down NOW and she could not handle a c-section. The stuff they had to drip (mercury based? i do not recall) WOULD hurt the baby and maybe kill her. By the time the doctors presented this decision to me my wife was in and out of consciousness and seemed delirious. It was a terrible choice. I chose the IV.
They had the IV set up and ready to go when my wife regained consciousness and I told her what we were going to do. She was able to somehow in those moments find the strength to push hard enough for the doctor to see what the problem was (The baby was too big and getting caught on her pelvis - the doctor had to dislocate her little arm to get her out.) and mother and baby made it through o.k.
You are right. I didn't think about that. Thanks for the great perspective on this issue.
I am, however, very against using abortions as the only means of birth control. I've seen so many women, friends even, have abortion after abortion. I'm also not someone to say "she's too young to have a baby"...if you're 'responsible' enough or think you are to have sex, then you are 'responsible' enough to face the consequences.
I don't look down upon anyone who has had an abortion. I had a miscarriage at 17, and I'm glad I did, b/c I was by no means ready to have a child, but was pro-life at the time. I have 2 beautiful children now, I was pro-life for my first child, and gave the father of our children the choice on our 2nd b/c I didn't give him a choice on the first.
Pregnancy was a miserable experience for me. I hated being pregnant, so I've completely closed up shoppe...tubes tied and uterus fried.
I have also seen both sides of abortion. The heartbreaking impact for the one who does it and the life saving/emotional sanity for those who do it. It is impossible to see the torment of the small soul whos life has been taken.
Everyone has a story of pain, fear, torment, happiness, joy. It isnt much different than those who live life without a choice like that. We all have choices to make about every aspect of our life.
What does scare me sometimes in the ultimate attitude of our society when we justify anything not just abortion. Working in the medical field I witnessed hundreds of women use abortion as a tool for birth control. They did not give a second thought to the fact that multiple abortions meant infertility later when they might want children.
I agree there are many justifications that people believe in their heart are valid. I believe those very justifications can be used to decide death over life as convenience. It becomes an attitude. I often ask myself why an unborn baby has to suffer for a rapists actions. Why an unborn baby has to suffer for a teenagers laziness. Why an unborn baby suffers for the choice of our life being more valuable then theirs.
Ultimately, what I think doesnt change a thing. Society has gotten to the point that the quick fix for anything is better than healing the root of the result.
I dont fight the law, I pray that the hearts of people making their individual choices will be changed. This brings us back to "free will" which is exactly what choice is. We choose the path we take in our life. In society we have government that makes rules for us to follow. I follow the rules and laws to the best of my ability. In the same way, I follow Gods laws to the best of my ability.
While I dont judge those that choose options that would not be mine, I dont allow those choices to affect my ability to teach my children to respect the ultimate laws of God. The full circle being that they will make choices, whatever they are, that they have to answer for.
When my sister was 18 years old, she had an abortion. The abortion was for the convenience of avoiding my fathers rath of judgement. She was pregnant with a child from her first love who was a black man. My father was very predjudice. My sisters fear was that my father would disown her. There was not a day that went by that I didnt watch her deteriorate and regret the decision she made. It literally destroyed her. Today, that doesnt happen so much anymore, because society has accepted abortion as an option of choice and reduced a life to a mere blob.
These are the thoughts that come from my heart and in no way am I minimizing the feelings or torment of a mother who might loose her life giving birth or a woman who would have to live with the memories of a rapist. What I have seen though, is a total attitude of dehumanization in our society. People are not people anymore. They are choices, life is choices. What is in our heart at the time of our choice is what is most important and what God knows. He knows fear, pain, suffering, and he knows the importance of giving His life for another. He gave His life for me and I try to give as much of mine as I can for Him.
Hugs