Fuzz seems to have an axe to grind about AA. AA might not be for everyone but is childish to bash something just because you don't understand it or agree with all of it. There are such unfortunates like yourself.
BB

I'm simply asking questions that should be asked. Just because you don't have anything intelligent to add to the conversation does not mean I'm bashing anything.

The questions were...

What is a paradox? and... How does the term paradox pertain to AA?

Pretty simple questions that no one seems to be capable of answering.

Maybe we don't feel the need answer pointless jibes. Your only reason for asking dumb ass questions is to try to stir s--t. There is nothing else to be gained. I think you may have mental issues that need addressing FIZZY!
I am Barry and I am an alcoholic

I'm bcarey and I'm an alcoholic. I really wish that wasn't the case but it is. There is something magical about talking to/listening to other alcoholics. You gain hope and wisdom from the old-timers and you are reminded of this horrible affliction when you see the pain in the eyes of the newcomers. Frankly, I don't care about tomorrow. If AA can get me through today w/out a drink then it works better than any therapy or meds I've taken and I'll stick with it.

The powerless issue seems to confuse some of us so I just wanted to reprint this from another similar thread:


Although I tried many times to quit drinking on my own, I eventually reached a point where I had to admit I was powerless. I was licked by alcohol and could do nothing effective to stop on my own. I accepted defeat and felt humiliated.

Though it seemed like the end of the road, it was really the end of one phase of my life and the beginning of another. It was the end of the phase in which I relied on self will, and the beginning of the phase in which I gradually learned to rely on my Higher Power!

One of the many "Paradoxes" of the 12 step program and of life itself is that when we finally reach and go through this surrender point, we win! and we know that we win because we feel an immediate sense of relief. Though we may feel deeply humiliated by our surrender, which goes against everything our egos have learned, the pain and humiliation is mitigated by the knowledge that the fight is over! We need struggle no longer! We have surrendered and it feels good! Scary maybe, but good, because the load which is lifted from our shoulders is greater then the fear of giving up and the pain of continuing the struggle!

The principle of surrender is basic to all life, even for those who do not reach it until death. and even when their death is caused by natural causes or old age. The point is for those of us who surrender early in life, life becomes satisfying instead of frustrating....a joy instead of a constant struggle...because the deep satisfaction of living in harmony with the cosmic forces is so much greater then the transitory pleasure or excitement obtained from any struggle we could imagine or actually wage against those forces.

Though the first step may sound like a statement of despair, it merely points out our human limitations which we have so long tried to hide from our conscious selves, and which have prevented us from solving our addiction problems on our own. This is our first step toward the humility we need to find the spiritual guidance that will open new dimensions in our lives. If we wish to be delivered from our drinking problems, we must first admit we cannot do it alone.

Hope this explains! Much of this was taken from Emotional Health Anonymous handbook.

God Bless! "

Can you give me an example of how you rely on a higher power?

Hard for me to explain in a few short words. It would be easier if you read the book called "The 12 steps for everyone who really wants them" and I'll be happy to send you a copy for free if you trust me with your address.

God Bless!

FW personally in this thread I believe you are asking relevant questions as for the paradox as with lots of stuff in AA it is the persons interpretations that counts. That is why in reply 12 I said my understanding, this is why it makes sense to me.

As for relying on my HP will give you an example when I have bit more time.

G8

I don't have the time to read through all the responses, but will add a comment anyway.

I did not surrender anything to quit drinking. I took my life back.

I did not turn my life over to a "higher power." I found my strength within and support from family and friends.

I don't wish I could drink and the idea of drinking if I could doesn't appeal to me.Not a knock against AA, but I am glad I got sober without it. I hated meetings and can't imagine spending time in them on a regular basis. I don't feel different from people who drink -- like they are "normies" and I am something different. I don't feel like I have an incurable disease either.

In those first weeks when I got sober I had a mantra to help get through the rough spots, and I did have a lot of them. "I cannot drink. I will not drink. I do not drink." I don't think about it any more, but that is how I live.

I am glad I am sober.

I'm grateful for the ignore button. Its a good thing.
Anyway, powerlessness and unmanageability were easy for me to admit and to recognize...personally...once I was beaten down. But before that time I thought I had it. I thought I just needed to learn to control my drinking and set out and tried many many times. Many of us know the drill. Drink water between booze drinks..still drunk. Drink on weekends...still drunk on a Monday, etc. most weeks....Drink just wine, drink just beer. Drink one or two and pry myself away. Quit for a week, a month, a year. Drunk again.
I'm totally powerless once alcohol is in my system. And my life as an active alchi is totally unmanageable. I don't believe I can compartmentalize anymore. I used to believe I could. So I could have a great career, but relationships would suck. Or I could run a marathon, but puke most mornings. Ugh. So so SO grateful not to live like that anymore.

Paradox...have found plenty of that in the last few years and I'm comfortable living with paradox...

Lets get back to basics :)

"Aparadoxis a statement that apparently contradicts itself and yet might be true.[1][2]Most logical paradoxes are known to beinvalidarguments but are still valuable in promotingcritical thinking.[3]Some paradoxes have revealed errors in definitions assumed to be rigorous, and have caused axioms of mathematics and logic to be re-examined."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox

Lot of the things I've done throughout my life seemed to me to be essential, self defense, prerequisites for survival and yet they were killing me plain as day.

That right there is a Paradox...on deeper reflection it might turn out there are errors in the thoughts and beliefs that took me to that point...that I would see something that was killing me as essential to my wellbeing :)

P

Fuzz, I can give you an example of how I relied on a higher power:

In the beginning I had a lot of social anxiety. The first time I went to a party where I knew other people would be drinking, I prayed a lot -- not that I wouldn't drink, but that I'd be able to get through the evening sober. There's a difference. I was really afraid that nobody would talk to me, or that I wouldn't know what to say if they did. Apparently I wasn't the loser I thought I was. By the end of the party, not only did I not drink, I also managed to have a little fun. Relying on a "power greater than myself" gave me the courage to be honest, to laugh if I really though something was funny, and not feel forced to make a remark if I didn't really have anything to say. Needless to say, I also didn't throw up, fall down, or make a total fool of myself, and I was able to go home at a reasonable hour with some pleasant memories and a smile on my face.

Over time, I have learned to trust that "higher power" to get me through my whole life sober. I live by a number of principles as honestly and compassionately as I can, and after that, it's not up to me what happens. Accepting that I can't control anything except my own behavior has been the key to living a happy, productive life for me. I guess you could say my whole attitude and outlook on life has changed, but that might be too much AA-speak for you at this point...

One time I was on vacation, me and an old buddy ( that drinks ). We woke up the next day with a flat. So with no spare we were stuck at the condo. This was in early sobriety. I handled it ok for awhile. Also I forgot my phone charger... I can't explain it but when I get that out of control feeling... I want a drink. My level of anxiety got so high that I almost went to the fridge where my buddy had booze. See, I drank to disconnect, not relax. Well I finally just prayed to God for help. I then walked down to the dock, saw a sign for a water taxi . I was able to take the taxi to get a air pump and get the tire pumped up, get to the store get a charger, and then to a meeting. Without drinking. It was close, I would be dead now if I started again, I know it.

When there was nothing else I asked God for help, I stayed sober.

1is2

A paradox is a statement that apparently contradicts itself and yet might be true.' Give it away to keep it' would therefore be a paradox.

Yes kookoo...

"Give it away to keep it"
"Alcohol was just a symptom"
"I learn more about me from my enemies than my friends"

The list goes on :)

http://markmanson.net/paradoxes/

P