You make it sound almost impossible to quit drinking... Okay, so you've told us your life was "unmanaged" and that you were powerless

What exactly did you do to beat it?

Stop fighting I think is the meaning in this context Fuzzy...not a universal command but a concept plenty of folks have found useful.

If you've spent your whole life trying to beat Mike Tyson and ending up with nothing but broken bones...stop trying, stay out of the ring :)

In practical terms for many folks that means going to an AA meeting, a rehab facility, a counsellor, a church and saying "Ok I'm done. Don't want to drink anymore. What do I have to do?"

Not "I want to stop but I'm not doing this or that and I only want to stop if I can keep this" but "ok I'm done"

The beauty is not everyone has to get to that point in order to stop. The tragedy is plenty die way before their time because they never get there. I have no idea why some fall into the first camp and some in the second :)

Rings bells with me...there was plenty of fear and distrust and misgivings when I stopped drinking but the overwhelming feeling was...who cares, I am done. Don't want to do THIS anymore so I'm open to suggestion :)

P

P

I understand that the concept of surrender to win exists within AA culture... I just don't believe the concept makes any sense... It's like a dead end... describe what a horrible drunk you supposedly are and then decide that there is nothing you can do to stop drinking? So you give up on trying to stop drinking?... That makes no sense.

There are none too dumb for the A.A. program but many are too smart. A.A. is a simple program for complicated people.

From weakness comes strength.

- We give it away to keep it.

- We suffer to get well.

- We surrender to win.

- We die to live.

- From darkness comes light.

- From dependence we found independence.

I no longer drink because it wrecks my life and I have had enough of the heartache. I was ready to stop drinking. This meant getting some help, and advice and then implementing the things I found useful into my life. I had to believe in myself as being competent, caring, and confident in my decisions without the cop out of being powerless over my drinking.

What did I do to 'beat it' simple I found a power greater than me.

If I did not have the power to stop drinking then I had to find a power that could, therefore, if I did not have the power then anything I could do had to be greater than what I had.

I try hard not to describe how horrible I was as a drunk (to me that is the drama of drinking) what I try to describe is what happened internally to me when I drank ie how I can not take one without the craving coming on me to drink all I can, how haveing that first drink made me feel complete, how the sensation of the first drink made me feel.

But most importantly I try to talk about the solution that has worked for me. It is the common solution that holds us together not the car wreck.

And FW I never gave up giving up, I needed to find my solution which I did find in the Big Book and the program of AA, not neccessarly in the rooms.

Some more thoughts on my experience G8

FUZZ You give up fighting it the way you have been with will power because it never will work. I f it did we wouldn't be having this discussion now. By excepting that you are powerless you make room for the god of your understanding to step in and share the burden. By excepting a higher power we become emboldened and feel we aren't going through it alone and with his help we can succeed.

If being powerless is a 'cop' out that allows me to stay sober, I am glad I am a 'cop' out.

Better a 'cop' out than a drunk

Wouldn't you agree??

G8

@Gr8ful...

Yeah... It's described as an amazing paradox in AA literature...

"Step One showed us an amazing paradox: We found
that we were totally unable to be rid of the alcohol obsession
until we first admitted that we were powerless over it."
~12 Steps and Twelve Traditions Page 107

What is a paradox?

Fuzzy. It's seems that you don't need any programs to stay sober. That's awesome, but not the case for most of us. AA is proven to work if the effort is there so I will continue to support anyone that decides to work the program.

bcarey34... Thanks... Is there something wrong with asking what a paradox is?

Exactly what is this paradox AA speaks of? where is the contradiction to which we are to subscribe in order to be successful in quitting drinking? I mean were talking about a radical change in personality with many promises, but what are we actually getting into here?

Wanna talk about that?

FW my understanding of the 'paradox'

To find the power I need to admit I have no power. Therefore the paradox in my understanding if I am to find the answer I need to admit I am powerless to find the power.

When I thought I had the power over drinking nothing changed, I kept on drinking. For this to change I needed to change something. I changed from haveing all the power to have no power, then I found a power to stop drinking.

Just my understanding, G8

Perhaps there is a philosophy support group on here somewhere? I thought this group was just about not drinking.

If surrender to win means to give up booze and move in a different direction to win I understand. Where I may differ is that the movement away from drink for me is a self empowering act, not predominantly a spiritual conversion experience...It is well within my power not to drink once I face the brutal fact alcohol is causing me problems. I need advice and help from time to time, but each and every decision and the results of my actions are my responsibility. The how and ways one remains sober are innumerable.

Yes, it is better to cop out than be drunk. However, I equate powerlessness with being a victim. I really never was a victim of alcohol. I allowed my drinking to get out of hand as I chose to drink every single drink I took for a whole host of reasons.

Z18 I understand what you say and for you that works but at the risk as sounding a smarty pants is it possible in using the wording 'cop' out relating to some one being weak. Is that sort of wording possible of haveing the result of putting off someone who needs support?.

If some one was reading my post and was relating to what I was saying then reads 'cop' out and they think if I go the powerless track then I am weak and they reject the idea. All this does is denies them the oppurtunity to find a possible solution.

I do not believe AA is for everyone, however, it is better to find an ansewer wherever than to push others away.

I believe when I try to prove my solution is the best way all I am doing is pushing others away and denying them the oppurtunity to explore their own journey. For me that is where I need to support irrespective of my journey.

G8 waffling.