Alcoholism Support Group
Alcoholism is the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages, even when it is negatively affecting your health, work, relationships and life. If you think alcohol is causing you to lose control, it's time to seek help. Our group is a safe place to vent, check in, get back up if you fall, and reach sobriety.
There are a few AA groups in my area called something along the lines of...
Never Ever
Under No Circumstances
Under Any and All Conditions
They are groups that seem to have a reputation for being extreme. A couple things I have heard...
Anyone with under a year sobriety is not allowed to speak at meetings. They spend their enitre first year just reading and rereading the BB. Women have to be sponsored by men. You are expected to do exactly as you are told. You give up all self reliance. Their "way" they describe as putting "blinders" on you until you can be led to "safety". They say you don't have to WANT to stop drinking in order to stop drinking.
To me, it just sounds like they are more commanding about doing the program. It seems the members are "hardasses" and take the program 100% seriously all the time.
I am a bullshitter and a thinker. For me to rely solely on another person or group of people to do my thinking for me would normally be out of the question. My self-reliance is my security blanket. That said, I may need to be strong-armed to give it up. Most of the people I have met in AA seem to step aside easily while I run my show. I keep getting drunk. I am a magnet for these "never-evers" and they are the only ones who seem bold enough to assert themselves with me and not take my shit. A couple of them have actually come really close to breaking be down to surrender with the directness.
I dunno. They seem cult-ish and brainwash-ish.
Has anyone heard of these types of AA groups in your areas?
Never Ever
Under No Circumstances
Under Any and All Conditions
They are groups that seem to have a reputation for being extreme. A couple things I have heard...
Anyone with under a year sobriety is not allowed to speak at meetings. They spend their enitre first year just reading and rereading the BB. Women have to be sponsored by men. You are expected to do exactly as you are told. You give up all self reliance. Their "way" they describe as putting "blinders" on you until you can be led to "safety". They say you don't have to WANT to stop drinking in order to stop drinking.
To me, it just sounds like they are more commanding about doing the program. It seems the members are "hardasses" and take the program 100% seriously all the time.
I am a bullshitter and a thinker. For me to rely solely on another person or group of people to do my thinking for me would normally be out of the question. My self-reliance is my security blanket. That said, I may need to be strong-armed to give it up. Most of the people I have met in AA seem to step aside easily while I run my show. I keep getting drunk. I am a magnet for these "never-evers" and they are the only ones who seem bold enough to assert themselves with me and not take my shit. A couple of them have actually come really close to breaking be down to surrender with the directness.
I dunno. They seem cult-ish and brainwash-ish.
Has anyone heard of these types of AA groups in your areas?
Poo - I will not be sponsored by a man. That is just one of the rumors I heard. May not even be true.
Please cover yourself doll
They say they have an answer for my constant relapses and that is giving up self reliance and giving in to the program. Their answer is a "strong" sponsor who will guide completely. (Not saying she was referring to a man - She only said "sponsor" today) I actually thought she was wanting me to ask her to sponsor me. It wasn't until I saw the name of her home group, "Under Any and All Conditions", that I started to wonder.
Pat - Her group is listed in Intergroup's directory. I can't find the "Never Ever" Group.
And, yes, lots here have gotten through to me, but there is a piece of self reliance that I am not giving up. Fear based I am sure. It would take a pretty convincing person for me to say "yes I will rely completely on you and your way". ...I don't know where my HP fits in yet.
Better watch out in Feb. They say if you get too close to their "energy" they will suck you in and you will never escape. My new bff's home group is in Beech Grove...
~insert really creepy scary music here~
I too was a bull-shitter and a thinker for many years (probably still am to some extent) and I found plenty of ways to avoid the obvious conclusions. Chapter 5 of the Big Book describes people in my situation very well:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
You wrote: My self-reliance is my security blanket. That said, I may need to be strong-armed to give it up. Most of the people I have met in AA seem to step aside easily while I run my show. I keep getting drunk.
To me, self-knowledge and will-power was all that was required to fix the alcohol problem, and like you my self-reliance was my security blanket. All of that was about as useful to me as a candle on a motorbike. I was alcoholic and could not manage my own life.
Like you, I needed to be strong-armed to give it up, whether it was alcohol or self-will. When the pain and misery got bad enough, I needed nothing more than an admission that I was defeated and could not do this alone.
Like you, I always liked to run my show. People in AA told me that I was a lousy director and that maybe I should let a power greater than me run the show. They never suggested that I should wear blinders and indeed they were happy enough to step aside and let me drink if I didnt want what they had. It was my choice to either drink myself to death or a wet brain, or to choose recovery.
For me, it was necessary to leave the bull-shitting, thinking, self-knowledge, self-reliance and strong-arm stuff aside and start again. Was I such a special alcoholic that a programme that worked for millions of others would not work for me? Thought I was for a while.
By all means, try the Never Ever stuff if you think it will work for you. However, I cant help thinking that youre just running away from something that will definitely work but that you are afraid of. It may be because of a fear of the unknown or it may be that you are not prepared to be honest with yourself. My suggestion to you is to accept defeat in the battle with alcohol - otherwise you will forever be fighting a war that you can never win. Then read (a), (b) and (c) above and the whole of Chapter 5 in the Big Book. The solution to the problem is simple and it has been tried and tested.
If you continue to run your show, you will keep getting drunk.
No human power could have relieved our alcoholism. God could and would if He were sought.
Problem is I keep drinking. I guess the pain has not gotten bad enough. So what now? Most say complete desperation was necessary. I am not there. I do NOT want to drink again. I do NOT want more pain. It is bound to happen unless I "get this". I have to surrender, and thus far, I have not been able to bring myself to surrender to my current HP which i call God.
Aside from one friend here who answered me honestly, this woman today was the first AA'er to TELL me I do not have step 1 down, but that I could get there without picking up another drink.
No harm in paying a visit. Maybe I will shock them all by speaking at my first time there. I will bring my woman sponsor. :-p
If I have a thinking problem, how is someone who does the thinking for me going to help me?
I absoutely agree with PJ's last sentence. Comes out of Chap. 5:
a) that we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives
b) that probably no human power could relieve our alcoholism
c) that God could and would if he were sought.
The solution to my problem is of a spiritual nature. Nobody could sober me up or get me drunk. If the structure fits, feel free to try it on.
Please dont get the idea that it takes complete desperation before you can get this. I had some of that desperation, but I could see that there was a lot more to come if I kept drinking. All that is needed is an honest admission to yourself that the game is up as far as drinking is concerned. After that, be prepared to go to any lengths in order to achieve sobriety.
I dont know what your experience in AA has been, but I know that when I went to the first meeting, I could see many things they were doing that I could do better, ha, ha - running the show again.
What I would say is that no sponsor, no matter how good she or he may be, will get you sober. All that a sponsor can do is to guide you through the steps but if you keep questioning and fighting against it, you will not make progress.
I have come across many people in A.A., especially women who are in your situation. Unfortunately, they have trouble finding other women to sponsor them who have a good knowledge of the Steps. I am not suggesting that such women cannot be found, but they are scarce in some areas. What happens then is that people do some steps but dont really understand them, through no fault of their own or their sponsor. Many of them go away with the thought that A.A. does not work for them. This happens to men also, but they have more sponsors to choose from and as a result have a better chance.
I would agree with you that what you probably need is no nonsense type of sponsor (the type that I have) but ultimately, it is you who has to do the work. Maybe this cult type meeting is the answer but please be careful. I think that you can find what you need at any A.A. meeting, providing that you approach it with honesty and with an open mind. I think that it is not so much about the type of meeting that you attend or the type of sponsor that you have but more about your own approach. You have to take things at face value, something I had great difficulty with, and you have to trust the person who has been down that road before.
What I would suggest is to go back to your regular meetings and Listen for a sponsor a woman who talks about the Steps and who seems to live by the programme. Between her and the help that you can get here, you can do this very successfully without putting yourself in the hands of any gurus.
We have talked about this area and for some odd reason this whole lil' town get's off like this. But who really cares ya know, that's on them and it might or might not work for you. Tha'ts up for you to check out and make your decision. Might end up a great road for you, might end up all messed up.
Really and truly I believe in my heart I had the best sponsor a person could have, but the bottum line was; he was to guide me through the steps"only".
After I grew a lil' it became evident some things were not gonna work out between me and him, but I love him.
I live the steps and am trying to learn how to live the traditions and have about 4 sponsors now, some of them I can even talk to about family matters.
Go get ya some, I can tell that you have nothing worry about.
I am looking forward to seeing you at the 64th annual Franklin AA bash with Kudzu, I truly can't wait. maybe drag a few more in with us,,, You will see a big bunch of sober idiots,, guaranteed.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLates