Meant to say defiance and ego are my BIGGEST character defects. One day I will proofread before I hit done.

Hey Sorry to hear that you are having such a bad time at the moment. My personal view is that it's the Step work that you are doing which is the most i portant in recovery because you need to get to that spiritual awakening which will relieve you of the mental obsession. I don't believe that going to that many meetings is actually that helpful. Meetings don't get or keep us sober - maybe that is fuelling some of your depression!?

Great that you keep in touch with your friends in AA. Where are you on the Steps? I normally have my sponsees through them in about 13 weeks. I meet them once a week for 90 minutes and we go through the first 164 pages.

Maybe also check with your doctor that you are on the right dose of anti-depressants. Once your sobriety is stabilised it's possible that you may even be able to come off them - some people can and some can't. We were talking about this over dinner as my sister is a 'non medical prescriber' and we were at hers. Back when I was very ill mentally, I had to take a lot of medication in order to stop me carrying out the thoughts I was having.

I came off over a period of 18 months and it was largely tolerable. Feel free to contact me if I can help!

Lyn

Wow! 18 months is remarkable! I don't think I have had more than 4 months in 3 years. It's tough but you didn't lose all that time when you relapsed in July or did you lose all that you learned about yourself. If it took someone 10 years to lose 1 million pounds, if they relapse by eating a gazillion peanut butter cookies (I am baking right now those right now, btw) in one sitting, they are not going to gain back the million pounds. Maybe just a couple.

I'm not trying to dumb it down or minimize the impact of having even one relapse. The guilt and shame felt from letting yourself down is like no other. We all know that that one relapse can be fatal.

The moments of crap are normal. Although I believe you are some kind of superhero, you still have the human tendencies so those feelings are normal. I would be worried if you didn't have these.

I heard someone say today in a meeting that once he decided to stop looking at it like 'I can't drink" and instead, "I can drink but I don't want to" did something for him. I don't know if that would work for me. Who knows. What's one more lie.

Anyway, Keep trucking, my dear friend. I think you are such an amazing, kind sweet spirit and so happy that you are still fighting this! love ya

Anna, ya say you have "moments or periods" its better the 24/7 of craving or obsessing right?

I think your doing the right things just don't give up before it all comes together.

I seen someone say you might be going to many meetings let me just say the people that have been sober and relapse if they make it back the main reason I hear is they quit going to meetings. Never heard before to many meetings may cause depression just some food for thought.

Its a full circle deal live the steps, meetings and help others which is what your doing.

Taradactyl, are you feeling that you just want to be sober "sometimes"?

It's just your comment about you wanting all the things you are doing to shift you to want sobriety "for good."

I agree with you that you may be missing the surrender bit - something not quite right with your Step 1? Is there some part of you that still believes that one day you will be able to drink like other people?

Just some things to ponder.

I used to read the Book and get confused, trying to figure out what it was they wanted me to do. Like the actions they were describing were all well and good for people who lived in the 40's, but surely you weren't suggesting that I do them today? There must be some kind of modern equivalent, probably a bit less drastic, that everyone was talking about.

Defiance isn't a great thing Tara. For me, real surrender (step 1) meant I was willing to go to any lengths. No more fighting, no more "this I will not do".

Good luck

I appreciate your honesty. I don't know what you 'need', anymore than I know what I need, except to keep practicing the program. I nearly went back out this weekend, and I don't feel out of the woods yet - so I have had a real shock, that I could so easliy blow it all.
I, too, have been doing the do. Praying (on my knees), meetings, church, reading up on 'forgiveness', reading stories in the Big Book, ringing people to tell them I feel like drinking and drugging. What triggered me into this was contact with family - they are bad news for me, except my niece. I THOUGHT i'd be oK. Now, I'm left with a mess of bad feelings that i have to deal with - instead of escaping.
I haven't had the desire to drink/drug today, thank god. Did a great meeting tonight, and got support. But I'm frightened of the NEXT time I just want a few drinks and a joint with the friendly neighbour downstairs. (I live in government housing, and I'm the only one sober).
GOOD LUCK, hope my writing helps you feel less alone with your struggles. HANG IN THERE, every day sober is worth it. Do you accept that you're alcoholic - just a thought - you could pray for acceptance.

To my favorite northern duck.
Sometimes we are doing nothing wrong & we need to focus on what we are doing right. Doing our best is simply staying sober that day, we both know we might not be hunky dory but things can be a shitload worse.
I had a fear of getting back on meds, fear of ever having to come back off of them. Thoughts of long term sobriety creep into my brain and asks;; this shit sucks,, there must be something more.
Eventually agreeing with my wife and really start working closely with my DOC with rigorous honesty and solving some underlying issues.
Long story short; If you are working the program to the best of your ability, laying it all out there with your doc. and your staying sober that day,,,,well that was a good day. Sit back and chill, just know you gave it all ya got. Slow deep surrender eventually comes and you will just be able to sit back and enjoy that moment only, because that's all we really have.
With that being said I would like to thank AA for delivering me most of the way in this journey(step work). Without the awareness that AA and my sponsor so freely gave me,,,,I would be a sitting DUCK!!! LMFAO.

"Meant to say defiance and ego are my BIGGEST character defects"

Just my opinion, Anna... these are what need to be addressed the most. Becoming teachable is key. Known you a long time. You know what I'm saying! :)))

Hugs. xoxo

Thanks all. I went to a 7am mtg this morning. Going to coffee with an AA friend and then a noon mtg.

G... yes just moments. I hardly thought about drinking over the last month and when I did, I quickly dismissed the thought. I didn't entertain it. The last few days it started coming up and I hardly tried to stop it.

Prada... Yes that is what I get to thinking. I do want continuous sobriety except in those moments that I don't care. I just want the obsession to go away for good.

Paul... No, defiance is not good at all. Sometimes I think I drink just to defy reason. I just don't seem to WANT sobriety badly enough right now. It sucks for days after a drunk but they are not as bad as they were a couple years ago. It's not as scary to drink. Maybe I am just not in enough pain.

I'm just gonna keep trying and hope it sticks.

Guess I miss read this thought ya been sober since July, would defiantly revisit the 1st step, and ya might have answered your own question with the WANT need NEED concept.

I used to feel how you are feeling, it was a hard slog - all those meetings, and the drink would still keep coming, couldn't see when or how but it did.

I will tell some of my experience, take what you want from it, if anything.

I was just a dry drunk, however I happened to be feeling, until I had the necessary spiritual awakening that finally removed the need or want to drink.

It's never come back in years but I found that hard to believe when people told me the same - i.e. the desire to drink had been removed. I could gain nothing until I experienced it myself. It's replaced with the love of a sober and more meaningful existence.

Back to how I was, doing lots of meetings etc but then I started attending some different meetings. Instead of the focus being on people's problems, the focus was more on the solution, a lot of spiritual stuff. This gave me a lot more hope and I didn't feel quite so down as I had when attending the previous meetings.

I had made a few false starts with sponsors and the steps, being told to take my time but with this new group, the emphasis was to get through them at a pace suggested following the precise instructions in the Big Book - quickly and thoroughly so I could get the relief and release I needed.

That's what made the difference for me - that and the fact that I was prepared to really go to any lengths, the momentum of the work kept me safer from a drink than meetings could. Not saying the meetings weren't important - they were but the Step work was vital.

Hello Taradactyl,

Dont be too hard on yourself and give it time. When I read your post I was reminded about the story of the alcoholic who prayed for patience and the prayer went like this:
God, grant me patience but please grant it now.

The good news is that even though you are struggling a bit now, you have come a long way in 18 months and that gives you something to build on. Although sobriety may in part be down to many outside influences, you have a leading role to play and it is fine to be proud of that and to accept that you have done well. Maybe you have not done it perfectly but that is fine too because it is a journey of progress rather than perfection. Just be careful when you are doing things and try to do whatever it is for the right reasons, i.e. in a spirit of giving, without expecting a reward or some sort of payback.

As others have pointed out, the answers are in those Steps and a spiritual awakening. The therapist and anti-depressants are another essential strand of your recovery so be guided by the professionals on that one rather than the opinions of people here.

Christmas and the New Year are a time for reflection so maybe it would be wise to carry out a review. It is obvious from your post that you are doing a lot of things but sometimes it can be better to slow down a little. The word pause is said to occur 7 times in the Big Book although I have not personally counted them.

1. When resentful thoughts come, try to PAUSE and count your blessings.
BB p.119, To Wives

2. In all times of emotional disturbance or indecision, we can PAUSE, ask for quiet, and in the stillness simply say: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Thy will, not mine, be done.
12&12 p.41, Step Three

3. Since this Step so specifically concerns itself with humility, we should PAUSE here to consider what humility is and what the practice of it can mean to us.
12&12 p.70, Step Seven

4. If you have a drinking problem, we hope that you may PAUSE in reading one of the forty-two personal stories and think: Yes, that happened to me; or, more important, Yes, Ive felt like that; or, most important, Yes, I believe this program can work for me too.
BB xii, Preface

5. When in doubt we can always PAUSE, saying, Not my will, but Thine, be done.
12&12 p.93, Step Ten

6. As we go through the day we PAUSE, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action.
BB p.87, Into Action

7. As the day goes on, we can PAUSE where situations must be met and decisions made, and renew this simple request: Thy will, not mine, be done.
12&12 p.102, Step Eleven

Success in life does not necessarily come to the people with brilliant ideas, the smartest or most educated individuals or to those with the greatest wealth or resources. Instead, success often comes to those who keep trying, even if they have failed in the past.

Happy Christmas.

Interesting...the saying I hear is that you can't *think* yourself into right action, but you can *act* yourself into right thinking. In other words get/ keep/ stay busy in the process of recovery.
You have mentioned everything you are doing.
What about what you arent doing? Have you fully surrendered? Just let go of running the show? Are you in service? Are you trying to make every situation you encounter better by your presence?
Are you calling alcoholics every day?
Whenever I have a long list of all that I'm doing...its usually to justify what I don't want to do.
For me the stuff I don't want to do, like the hardest amends, and mostly to stop throwing myself at my problems. My problems don't usually need *more* of me...they usually need *less* and more of God.

I've found it really all depends on following thru and being willing to trust its gonna be alright! But that re quire's.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RWEseP-ouk and patience