Yes Budda Cat, I have been to several AA meetings and one Al Anon meeting as well. I found the stories to be interesting and the fellowship to be genuine. Yet for me, the underlying notion that to succeed at sobriety I must turn myself over to some "Higher Power" (be it the ocean or whatever) simply did not work for me. Once I cleared my head and started to study the science behind addictions, I became convinced that my addiction to alcohol was no different than an addiction to any other substance. I enjoyed the feeling of being drunk and had integrated getting drunk on a regular basis into my general lifestyle over 45 years. I only knew how to live life as a part-time drunk. Eventually my addiction started to manifest itself in very bizarre and unhealthy behavior. There was no Higher Power that created my addiction and there is no Higher Power that I need to help me stop drinking. If you and others feel the need to find and follow some Higher Power in order to reach and maintain sobriety, then that is fine with me. No harm done. That is my personal belief and foundation (dogma) at this point.

I really believe that the best advise we can offer to the new people coming in, would be to focus on "what worked for us" and avoid negative conversation toward other modes of recovery.

IMHO

~~~Peace~~~

Nicely put Bob! I totally agree. Living through my own experience qualifies me to talk about it, it is my truth and all the rest is subject to change.

Buck, if interested, I suggest you read page 55 of the big book.

For deep down IN every man, woman, and child is the fundamental idea of God.

For me, and many others with long time sobriety, who do not believe in religion, that higher power is ourselves. It's true accountability and self-control based on a life without resentments and defects.

I read page 55.

Jeff, I like your last paragraph in post #21. I am not sure I understand or agree with the statement above it. Are you saying that God (your higher power) exists for you within yourself? Why do you need to call it God or a Higher Power? Why is it not just that part of Jeff that believes in self-control and accountability based on a life without resentments and defects?

The fundamental idea of some supernatural force (God, will, higher power, inner-strength) whatever is inside us.

God isn't getting me sober. I am enlightened within. My higher power is a better internal fortitude and mental strength I did not have before. The 12 steps helped me. They helped identify why I honked at cars and chased people down and gave people the middle finger.

The steps released me from a guilt i didn't believe I had for things I did over the year. They also provided me with the power to admit I was wrong and apologize to those I harmed.

I live free now. Free of worrying about what people think. I am free from my past. I try to do right. But Im never perfect, I just try to have progress.

It is within me not to drink. My higher power is an enlightened self. But for many who want to believe in God, that's OK too.

Very few people have the same higher power. It varies by the person, just like people would have a different concept of God, Buddah, Allah, or luck.

I tried quitting drinking for 15 years. I overdid it many times and hurt a lot of people. I could not quit. But after AA, and working the steps, and finding a fellowship, I have a higher power (confidence, more self control) to not drink.

Buck,

This may not make sense but here's how I know the program and a higher power (however it is defined) works for me.

I go on a golfing and drinking trip every year (mostly drinking).

I'd be the guy nobody wanted to room with, because if always hurl all over the place. It was a running joke since high school that continued into our 40s. My friends loved partying with me, as long as they weren't the ones who had to share a hotel with me.

I also had a very big reputation to of being an asshole and ridiculing others. If I wasn't making fun of you, I was funny as hell. If I was riding you about something, I was a dick.

I stopped drinking in Sept of 13. We went to our annual trip in March of 14. By this time I was attending meetings, but I really wasn't giving anything. I didn't share, and I only got to know a handful of people at meetings they are typically 80-90 ppl. I did not have a sponsor, nor work the steps at that point.

Now, I never made any conscious effort or say "I'm going to change and be a nice guy." But there was a change in March of 15.

I got to our event, and I'm lucky to have another good HS buddy who has about 15 years. But none of the other 20 guys or so know about AA or a program or anything.

When I showed up in Palm Springs, I had different guys tell me in confidence what a nicer person I was. They said I looked healthy, asked if I was working out more. They noticed I handled situations better and was an overall nicer guy. One guy told me I was the man of the year. He went on and on about how much I'd changed.

Never did anyone correlate my sobriety with my new attitude or change. But that was the difference. One guy, who never would have trusted me, opened up to me about his marital woes, and hinted he may have a problem with alcohol. Again, I never said a word about drinking except if one of them asked me, "hey you still not drinking?"

I know here I sound like a bible banger for AA. I am grateful for the metamorphosis that worked for me that is AA. Impermanence found a force that worked for him. Others found the Smart program. Others have been helped by Allen Carr.

When people come up to be and tell me I'm a completely different person, I know a miracle has happened.

Higher Power / Higher Self...that concept works for some :)
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/secular-12-step-recovery/276583-cant-higher-power-our-higher-self.html

http://tinybuddha.com/blog/the-message-your-higher-self-wants-you-to-hear/

Maybe the trick there is to differentiate between 'Higher Self' and 'Lower Self'...and not to confuse thinking/justifying/rationalisation and base instinct with that deeper part of me/basic nature which seems to transcend squirelly thinking and childish emotions :)

It's an interesting subject and well worth exploring I think

P