Yes things work best when people look for the common ground. ..


Dogma is a funny word though eh...the language we use can make a huge difference to the way that others hear and interpret what we say :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWshPH_jsjQ

P

Hey there! Thanks for the book report. You know I have been attending those AA online meetings. Obviously there is much talk on the 12 steps, the BIG BOOK. It doesn't bother me. I may or may not read the big book someday. I hear them say the 12 steps everyday. To me it sounds nice enough. But I don't think it's something I need to stress myself to do. Also I've been doing some of the stuff anyway. I just didn't know it had a label of a "step" on it.
I have many tools in my tool box now from various sources I've been learning about since Aug. "Maggie's steps" It's something that takes time and commitment on my part everyday. It's also something I am comfortable doing. It's okay for AA to offer the suggestions of 12 steps and the big book. As long as it's okay for me to say thanks but no thanks. I enjoy the meetings and I find them helpful. That's the part of my toolbox that has room for AA. I hope that make some sense.

Exactly...suggestions are suggestions :) Nothing is ever a command and if you hear someone who says it is...run for the hills :)

Besides commands/instructions tend to lead to Compliance and as my friend recently pointed out on here...compliance is a sneaky and not so useful solution in the long term...compared to taking positive action because you genuinely want to move towards something good...or away from something bad :)

I've done lots of things differently over the years...Meeting attendance, 12 Step work, counselling and psychotherapy...making peace with the past and people from the past...changing habits...

All of these things have worked much better when they have come from a place of genuine willingness and curiosity...though fear of (internal) consequences can be a great motivator too!

P

I've see many people who pass through AA without doing the steps and make it. I don't know the number of people who read the big book or not.

I will say, of the people who end up going out with long term sobriety, of those who make it back in, their commentary is that they weren't working a complete program.

I went to AA knowing I needed to be there, but uninterested in the 12 steps. Thankfully someone practically forced me to buy the big book at my first meeting.

I will always refer to that as the "chicken soup for the drinker's soul." I'm not a God guy. Higher power, doesn't not need to be morphed into anything other that your inner strength.

I'm glad I've done the steps, and have read the book many times. It allows me to let go of things immediately, and not care about the things that used to bother me.

I'm definitely a better person because of the 12 steps, something I never planned to do. Will i do them again, probably not. Like what's been said here they gave me the right tools to be a better person and not build up he conditions that led me to drinking.

I'm glad to be part of a sober community here, regardless of what you're doing to stay sober. I only know what works for me, and works for my sober friends.

I actually believe that AA in practice is typically much less 12 Step driven than one might expect based on reading a book like this. My experience is that the somewhat ritual nature of reciting the 12 steps at every meeting (not necessarily required but very common) is more like the typical bible verse reading they do at my church every Sunday. I have not been to a meeting where someone attempts to interpret the meaning of the 12 Steps for me. What I have experienced thus far is genuine fellowship, listening and advice based on personal experience. I can go for that part.

Yes Buck the meeting is the fellowship...the Steps very much something that goes on outside...on a one to one basis.. or sometimes not :)

It's what I have heard called the "Meeting after the meeting" :)

Lots of people go to AA and never get to experience this...I always got told not to form an impression just on what I saw before me but to go out and investigate :)

I remember when I was making lots of meetings, I got this peculiar idea in my head one day I would turn up and they would all be wearing white robes and ceremonial jewellery, ready to tell me what it was REALLY all about ha ;)

Never happened but I did come to a better understanding over time from the meeting after meeting...sounds like you are investigating which is all good :)

P

Unless you go to a specific step meeting, which people do (I do not), the steps are mentioned as one of the tools.

For me the fellowship and the stories of struggle, and triumph are what keep me sober.

I got to the meeting not to hear what happens when you're sober, but to hear what happens when you drink. For that I will never drink again. But I just focus on today.

I think different things work for different people and they all take us to the same place which is sobriety.

I remember reading in the first few pages of that book where it even said that "this book is not for everyone. You have to be ready for it!"

I was ready for it because my life had become unmanageable, so I read the book, did each step, one at a time with my AA sponser, and as a result, I am more happier now then at any point in my life, because I took the suggestions. There is no dogma. It explains that in the book also, but I can't tell you the page as I gave away my last copy, which reminds me, I need to go order more.

~~~Peace~~~

The higher power doesn't work for me either. I do not use the steps or go to AA either, although I did try AA, only to continually relapse. I found that special place within me that led to long term sobriety.

A buddhist in Hawaii went to court, when he was forced to AA, as a condition of his parole. He said that it conflicts with his religion, namely the higher power. He won in federal court. The U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that AA is a religious institution and a person cannot be forced to go to AA, if it conflicts with his religious views.

AA is good for some, especially for those have a higher power.

For me sobriety is only possible, when I changed. I not only had to deal with the alcohol addiction, I had to work on those issues that that were causing me to suffer. I had a bag of them. I sought counseling, but not a alcohol counselor.
I understood that it was other problems that caused me to run away by drinking. Finally I found a dharma class and the way of the buddha, was the best help that I ever had.
I don't recommend my path to anyone. One must follow that path that calls him. AA could be that path.

Butt I think you gotta wanna hear that story or suffer irreconcilable differences and suffering gets masked. So much for the simplicity of Not picking up a drink A day at a Time and beginning to understand what you resist the most that drives You: (emotional honesty)(((
Billy

I totally agree --- hurrah for everyone and anyone who gets sober. I'm always interested in how people live sober happy lives. Sometimes people do it in ways I know couldn't work for me. My grandmother used to say that's what makes horse races.
the common thread is we are all here to help others and ourselves get and stay sober.

or emotional dishonesty we all are a diverse crowd with our sufferin SERiously :))

From where I am, it always strikes me that the "G" word or even the "HP" distracts so much from the depth of what can be on offer...like a wall you can't see past...and always hogs so much of the conversation :(

"Whats in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jknynk5vny8

For myself, I had to sit with gritted teeth through much of what I heard early on but I held on because I sensed there seemed to be a little more depth to what I was being told than my closed mind was able to imagine...

I would say honesty - self-honesty, emotional honesty has been the number 1 prerequisite. With a willingness to work through whatever else comes up...the words that people use to describe this don't scare or disturb me so much today :)

P

thats a prickly topic PlauL thorns or a needle a in hay stack you choose Ha!!!

well ok then...
-Raising Arizona

http://youtu.be/Zy43R30f4O8