I think similar to you Nicky, why negatively mention AA at all if it is not what got you well.

I had a few avenues of recovery I explored before I found long term recovery through AA. I see in hindsight the problem more likely came back to me, not the method or programme or rehab. Was I really ready to want sobriety enough or willing to give whatever it was a fair go before I threw the towel in? In all things I experience in my life there is one common denominator - me - and so I must consider my own responsibility in what happens, recovery or otherwise.

Nicky, if you actually read my response I said that two weeks is great, continue to get some support but THEN move on with your life. That's all, just saying that believing you need lifetime recovery as "a recovering" alcoholic is crap. In order to be an alcoholic by definition you have to be drinking "alcoholically". If you haven't had a drink in 37 years you are not an alcoholic anymore. A potential alcoholic at some time in the future? Sure, but not now if you don't drink and haven't for 37 years. It' really not that complicated.

As they say double winners are those who see what they cannot change and are willing to address that as well..I found Alanon and therapy on my own pathology a much needed resource to gain piece in the world I interact in...a tough pill to swallow but i managed it out of need to understand Me and how others around me helped to shape my reality and reactions:))
Billy

Oh my, You know the best way to stop a fire? Stop fueling it. :) Fires keep going when people keep adding to it. And then they turn around and say why all the negativity toward AA. If a person has tried it, they have every right to express their feelings about it. Not one person that has gone to AA and disliked it has ever said do not go to AA. They are just expressing their feelings about their experience and why it did not work for them. No different then the ones that go to AA and like it and express their likes of it. If a person did something they did not like, why can't they say so? They can! I never read where anyone that did not like AA said don't try it. Why would that be considered "all the negativity toward AA"?. It is just their opinion/experience of AA. Sharing their dislikes of it. Nothing more then they people that like AA do. Are you saying a person that does not like AA can not say so? Are you saying only the people that like AA can say so?

Mel, nobody is saying that at all. What I think they are saying is exactly what you called for in your other thread - don't make everything about AA vs non AA especially in a post by a newcomer.

I agree. That is why this is a good place for Zack to post his new topic. Not under someones who didn't ask for a debate! :)

Like I said, everyone has a right to express their opinion even if they did not like it. Not just the ones that like it.

I guess when someone is looking for support I list out a couple of options (like AA, SMART, AlAnon - depending). They want to find out more, they'll ask. We point them in a direction (if they need or want pointing) and help where we can from there.
I really don't give a darn if they find out that hanging on to a rabbits foot keychain is the one thing that keeps them from that next drink. I'll still cheer them on and up when needed.
Belittling another's way of staying sober just means you might just still have some work to do on restraint of pen and tongue...

Hugs,
Dennis

I love this. This is why I love AA's traditions. If you havent read them, please do and you'll see what I mean.
If I were to say I hate wool blankets, I'd insult someone. If I take a strong opinion, someone, somewhere, will have a difference of opinion. Thank GODESS or we'd all want the same food, want to live in the same neighborhood, and marry the same men and women. Sheesh.

We're a diverse bunch Sticky. We've come a long way in finding out what makes us tick in this world both physically and psychologically and I'll always remain open to alternate views on what can help me and others, not just with not drinking, but with life itself.

My open mindedness has certainly developed over time. When I first got sober I wanted to get everyone in the program because I was so excited and passionate and blown away by the fact that I had found a way to stay sober. I also worried a lot about challenges to what had worked for me because I had difficulties with uncertainty and safety so I didn't want anything to rock the boat.

When I first came to DS it was the first time I had come into contact with people with different recovery methods and I had a lot to learn about being open minded and how to be with people with different views. After years of drinking all these skills were new to me.

Now I consider myself to be a lot more open minded and less judgemental. Some people here have certainly helped with that. I don't care how people get sober as long as it works for them. My experience is in AA and I can share that. Then people can decide whether my experience can be helpful to them. If not that's fine.

Perhaps the danger here is where one or other of us starts to decide, by ourselves, whats 'helpful' or 'unhelpful' to say in a given situation when the reality is whos to say and who knows what word or experience might help someone out of the hole they are in...if were all looking through our own experience only the rest of the world can look frightening and dangerous...something that needs to be controlled before it does any more damage :)

The most helpful things ive done in my life were done by accident...ive also been helped by people that did not and may never know they made a difference :)

Someone i met in early recovery once said to an acquaintance of mine, while I was in earshot, that they didn't believe I was a 'REAL' alcoholic....do I think they were trying to be helpful? Nope. Do I think its a generally helpful thing to say? Nope. Would I thank them for it the next time I see them? Hell no! But the sonofabeetch helped me :) Grudgingly I had to admit that...I dreamt about dragging them through a glass window for a week, I thought about going out and getting drunk to 'show them' why people shouldn't say things like that. Sooner or later I decided what other people thought about me in that regard didn't matter...I decided for myself and this was a corner turned, the resolution of something I had been struggling with and hadnt been aware.

Whos to say whats helpful and whats not? Not me, that would be pretty presumptious. But then again imy sure ive shouted out my opinion on here as often as anyone else has! Thank goodness its not all up to me and my opinion :)

P

Thankyou #17! I am so relieved that 6 years without a drink, means I am no longer an alcoholic and I don't need meetings anymore!

I remember what happened the last time I said that and I think I will stick with the meetings!

Experience is a great teacher!

God Bless!

Here a little story Charly. introduced me to years ago...it just came to mind Bob ooo inspired itt oh and plaul too...it makes it easier to not be quite so quick to judge a set of circumstances till they show their cards ahhhh ... frame of reference is a acquired taste i think

The Farmer's Judgment .. A Sufi tale

Once upon a time there was a farmer who had some land a ways outside the village.
He had a son to help him and one good horse. Indeed, it was a magnificent horse.
So magnificent, that when the King passed through the village, he heard about the
horse and asked to see it.

The King was so impressed that he offered the farmer a considerable amount of
gold for the horse. But the farmer would not part with his horse, and the King went away.

The next day, the horse ran away!

The villagers rushed to the farmer and exclaimed, "Oh, how awful. Your horse
is gone and you don't have the gold! What a bad thing has happened to you!"

The Farmer replied, "Well, I don't know that it's a bad thing, but I do know
my horse is gone and that I don't have the gold."

A few days later, the Farmer's horse returned. And, not only did the horse come back,
he brought six wild and beautiful horses with him. Each would be worth a great
sum once they were broken and trained.

When the villagers heard, they rushed out to see the horses and to say to the
Farmer, "Oh, you were right! It was not a bad thing that your horse ran away.
Now he has returned and brought you six more fine horses. It is a good thing!"

"I don't know if it's a good thing or not," the Farmer said. "I just
know that my horse has come back and brought me six more horses."

The following day the Farmer's son was trying to break one of the wild horses and
he fell off and broke both his legs. Again the Villagers visited the Farmer and
they exclaimed, "Oh, you were right! It was a bad thing that your horse came
back with six more horses. Now, your son has broken both legs and cannot help you
with your crops. Surely you will suffer great losses. Oh, what a bad thing!"

And the Farmer said, "Well, I don't know whether it's a bad thing or not. I only
know that my son was thrown from a horse and that both his legs are broken."

The next day the King returned to the village. He was leading his soldiers to the
border where the kingdom was engaged in a terrible battle with a neighboring country
The enemy was fierce and most of the young soldiers were marching to their death.

As the King passed through the village he rounded up all the young men to join in
the fighting. Of course, the Farmer's son, with his broken legs, did not have to go.

After the King and his men left, the Villagers rushed to the Farmer and exclaimed,
"Oh, you were right! It was a good thing that your son fell off the horse and
broke his legs. Now he will certainly not die in this war as will so many other young men.

The Farmer replied, "Well, I don't know if it's a good thing, or not. But I
know that my son did not have to go with the King to fight this battle.

And so the story goes....

There is one sentence at the end of the OP that comes anywhere close to criticism of AA and it was clear that it was based on my own perceptions. The line was, "Finally, for me AA can be a bit dangerous, because it is my view that on balance there is a lot of group think and suppression of free thought going on in AA."

That's akin to saying, "I tried to quit drinking on my own and it didn't work for me. Inevitably there were those mental blank spots and I drank again." That could be interpreted as a criticism of a way some one else is using to get sober. I don't perceive any part of that statement as criticism of any other way of getting sober.

The next line was: I am sure others feel much differently, They like to be a part of a group that emphasizes continued involvement, a road map to recovery (steps), and some type of spiritual experience as the well spring of of their recovery." That's like an AAers acknowledging there are other ways to get sober.

I do see what Paulokes is driving at in post #27:

"Whos to say whats helpful and whats not? Not me, that would be pretty presumptious. But then again imy sure ive shouted out my opinion on here as often as anyone else has! Thank goodness its not all up to me and my opinion :)"

I walk very closely to that line a lot, and when I walk so closely as much as I do inevitably I do cross it at times. :)))