I guess I look at that statement as meaning looking at my part in my resentments. Look at what I did, not blame others. Accept responsibility no matter how bad or shitty it was and recognize the behavior & sincerely apologize. Not just say "sorry" if I do something wrong but to really KNOW what I did was wrong and take ownership.

Then again, lots of times when I think the answer is obvious, I can talk to my sponsor and find a whole new meaning that makes much more sense! lol! :)

think narcissistic, or sociopath. Unable to empathize, no remorse, denial of ANY part in the negative consequences of life. Always blaming. Center of the universe and not ABOUT to be knocked off that center

I would say incapable means what it says-- incapable. There's a persistent myth in the recovery movement that everyone has an equal chance of attaining permanent sobriety if they'll just become willing to follow directions.

But I no longer believe, as I once did, that an alcoholic always has another chance or even that we all start out with an equal capacity for recovery. From what I've seen in real life over the last 21 years, the odds against a chronic slipper's gaining permanent sobriety are extremely poor, even though they may have far more experience, knowledge and practice at getting sober and putting some time together than any first-timer. We've all heard the testimonies of those who finally "got it" after a string of false starts, but statistically such people appear to be rare exceptions rather than the norm.

One of these, a guy I'll call Ralph, always used to say that a grateful heart will never drink again. But after saying that for a dozen years, Ralph did drink again. By his own choice, friends then brought him to a meeting every day for the next 8 years. But Ralph never again did put 24 hours of sobriety together and he died of this disease in his mid 50s. I just hope I never come to underestimate this disease or become convinced that the cure can be found in a sentiment or wishful thinking. The fact remains that only a very small percentage of us eventually die sober.

Armchair philosophy is wonderful. I love it and I indulge in it. But I've seen too many cases like Ralph to jump to any conclusion in this still very murky field of mind & body interaction.

Until we have a better handle on the physiology of alcoholism itself, there will continue to be thousands-- no, probably millions-- like Ralph who defy explanation, and I think any theory worth its salt should be one that can account for all the evidence.

First up, my Dad died from this illness and I am nearly 11 years sober, so "stopping the cycle", can happen for you too. Constitutionally incapable.... means people have something within their heart and souls imbedded so deep that they cannot be honest with themselves and others. But might I say, that you asking this question so earnestly - and the emotional risk that entails, indicates that you CAN be honest with yourself.

The only thing you need is willingness.

Some can not distinquish fantasy from reality, truth from lie, person from object, life from death, etc...through no fault of their own. Some are born that way while others lose the ability. Some regain it, while others do not. We don't know and you won't know who you are and what you can do until you try.

Anna, you are NOT your father...

Maybe you wanna be him? Why? Why? Why?

Stop it...you are a beautiful, intelligent, heart-loving person who is not destined to follow her father's path. Forgive him...let him go in peace...you deserve a better life.

His emotional pain is not your fault, try to remember that you are his daughter, the one he wished once upon a time for the best life possible...even if you don't remember he felt that way...

Please, Anna, forgive him, let him go, and get on with living YOUR life...I would love to have had you as a daughter. I only bore sons, but if I had a daughter I would be sooooooo proud of you.
Alice

Don't know if this will help but loads of people who I know in AA have read that statement in early sobriety and said what if that is me, what if I am that person who is constitutionally incapable of being honest? It is as if in a whole book of positive things about getting sober we are masters at picking up on the negative and worrying that is us. I certainly did it. So you are certainly not alone in asking the question.

"incapable of being honest with themselves". Jim's reply pretty much summed up my thoughts. But there's more to that para. "Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program."

HTL, there is hope that you will be one of those who do make it all the way to a life filled with joy. It's going to depend on how much effort and commitment you put in, but it can be done. You won't know if you are capable or not unless you too give yourself to the program with all your heart, and continue to live it each day.

And re your Dad. Yep, I was going to be dead by 42, which is how old my Mother was when she died an alcoholic. Did my best to make that happen. Once sober though, I went through counselling to unravel twisted knots of blame and guilt, on both of us. I couldn't separate that Mums alcoholism was hers, and mine was mine, and had convinced myself i was destined to follow the same path.

HTL I needed to go back, in order to move forward, and counselling helped me with this. Working the 12 steps also helped me see that Mum never stopped loving me, she was just incapable of showing it. The program combined with counselling helped lead me to forgiveness for us both. It took a long time, but I was finally able to move on and leave Mum in Gods loving care. Lot's of tears were finally shed, and there were more to come, but they were now welcome. You've got a lot of tears yet to come too HTL. Take the action to start the healing process.

Nema and BigBear, I don't get it. Nemo, you give an example of Ralph, who, after 12 years of sobriety, eventually went back out and drank to death. A question to ponder: Why weren't you among the friends bringing him to meetings, during the last eight years?

Perhaps you do not underestimate the severity of alcoholism, but you underestimate your culpability. Did you ever ask if you could help in that eight years? If you did, I stand corrected.

How2,

I understand your fear. I lived for many years believeing that I was destined to walk in my dad's shoes. But it turned out to be total crap brain bullshit. It took a lot of self awarness and work, but I have found out that I am nothing like him...go figure...30 years later. BTW, he never drank or used drugs the whole time I was a kid.

BUT, "Constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves..." simply put, means that they deny (are in denial) about the seriousness of their own condition.

You seem to agree that this conditon will kill you. You are opposed to what your dad felt. You are constitutionally CAPABLE of being honest with yourself.

BUT, this is just one part of it. Now that you agree that you can die from this condition, how serious do you treat this self-insight? This is the trickier denial layer to get beyond. It means that you must work hard at understanding yourself...self-analysis...meditation...prayer...comparing notes with friends...

IOW, self-awarness is the key to staying sober. Self-awarness is something that comes from hard work; not just something that is innate or "just something you are born with."

I understand-that fear you will never get better. The aa stuff I am not expert in. But that stuff about fear of this disease overtaking you is very much something I experienced.

For about the first 6 months of my sobriety I did not have the compulsion to drink, but I felt fear that it would someday again overtake me. I think it came in part by my dreams of drinking every night. I would wake up terrified that this was creeping in while my guard was down.

Anna-at 6 months I swear to you I had a deeper experience of divine grace. I had a profound sense of peace-seemingly out of nowhere (I believe it was divine) that I was not going to be overtaken by these "demons" as long as I follow my path of health.

I know it is not seen as a good thing to say I will never drink again-day by day-but I feel the chances of my drinking are as slim as me jumping off a cliff now.

I don't know for sure-but I think you may get there someday too.

Wayne,

The main reason I wasn't among the friends who brought Ralph to meetings is because he was a friend of an AA friend and he lived over a hundred miles away.

But your question goes right to the point I was trying to make, which is that so far no one among us has developed a formula for instilling a desire to stop drinking in someone else. Given Ralph's story as I heard it, I even have to wonder if giving him all those rides to meetings was helpful at all.

Then there's my friend Randy, to whom I gave many rides. Randy slipped and slid in AA for over 20 years, sometimes getting 30 days here and a few months there, and he finally died of liver failure, five years after a liver transplant, in his late 40's.

One night I picked him up hitchhiking, and as usual he had liquor on his breath. He asked me, "How do you do it?"

I replied, "Randy, are you still getting something out of it? Is the booze still doing something for you?"

Without hesitation he said firmly, "Yes it is."

"Then I don't think I can help you," I said.

Yes it is more than just being honest with yourself. It is about action-commitment to change. You have to go at this like it was a mountain to climb. If you let go, stop working, you will fall to the very bottom. It is hard hard work.

Being honest is the foundation, the start of the climb.

Excellent question -- what does constitutionally incapable of being honest mean.

The comment that until more is found out about the physiology of alcoholism is accurate.

I can moralize forever -- ignore the psysical part of my brain that was gentically out of balance at birth -- the family try is full of alcoholism plus addtional addictions -- compound that problem by smoking -- drinking etc, then mental illness a symtom progresses.

I love A A -- saved my life plus many in my family.

Not rocket science --- but ignored in A A for years.

What say you.

Michael in Kansas.

Wow, dude, this is an OLD post! But thanks for the reminder.

I am over 5 mos sober today with AA as my primary program.

I cannot even wrap my brain around the fact that THIS is my life today. I don't even think I was alive until now. There is no question I have been having a sort of spiritual awakening since the beginning of this period sober.

Life is good.

That said. Denial is ugly and I have learned it comes in many forms. My trouble was in seeing that I was in fact trying to be in control when I thought I was surrendering.

Cracking that denial made honesty with myself a possibility.

Why for you drag up this oldy?