hi ana....

have you done any reading on codependency?? i really love the books by melodie beattie called codependent no more and the language of letting go. these are based on a 12 step recovery perspective however. others can recommend other books.

i really suggest you do some research on codependency to help you understand what is going on with your relatiobsip.

you will not be able to change what he does or doesn't do or how he responds or doesn't respond.

so if you can accept him exactly the way he is then you will find relief in doing that. if you cannot accept him as he is you will need to work on your own codependency. the issue really lies with you and in the end has very little to do with him.

you are in the right place for supper though...we REALLY get what it feels like to be constantly disappointed and hurt.

I haven't read anything around codependency. I will though.
Do you think I should read that book, before I make any decisions?

personally i think if you're safe and still wanting this relationship it wouldn't hurt to learn about what's going on.....anyway that you can get educated about the dynamics of being in a relatiobsbip with an unavailable man is going to be helpful ..

right now you can go to

www.baggagereclaim.com and start reading.

i clung to that site when i first started here.....

most of us learn that these wwltm (the book) issues has little to do with the men.

glad you're here!!

I agree with Finns comments too, and welcome here from me too!

It took me a while to realise the issues lay with me and I have continued to blame the men I have chosen over the years. Im not saying they were at fault but the fault was mine for choosing them in the first place and allowing them to treat me badly as I felt I didn't deserve better.

Although his comments are very hurtful for sure.
Its also a red flag if someone is still attached to an ex!!!

I had decided to break up with him, I started telling him how the relationship is not making me happy, but somewhow we decided to give it another go. I told him that a couple of weeks ago I found a pair of knickers in his drawers, he only said that he doesn't used those drawers but offered no explanation. That night he rang me in his way back from the pub and when I asked who he'd gone out with he mentioned 3 women's names.
I cannot shake the obsessive intrusive thoughts out of my head about the knickers and these female friends who he has never mentioned before. I wished I could have gone through the break up instead of continuing suffering with these events which may be innocent but in my head, they feel like hell!
:(

so are you decided today???

No, there are days when I feel like not seeing him will solve all my unhappiness and other days when I can see that I have a problem with co-dependency and borderline personality disorder traits which make all relationships difficult. I'm ok with friendships though, I don't become dependent on friends,
There are times, more often than not when I feel that I am going crazy and cannot cope with my internal turmoil and confusion.

it can be so hard to sit in the ambivalence....but it's part of the process. when you're inspired and you KNOW you will move until then keep on seeking support.

there is a great deal of cognitive dissonance for us and in my experience NEVER any real closure when we leave.

I feel so confused, however, there are things and behaviours from him which make me feel that way. for instance, he can be very caring and attentive one day and next day distant and indifferent the next. I think, maybe, there are others who would also struggle with this behaviour. Thinking like that gives me a little comfort as I feel that I may not be as damaged as I perhaps believe.

I don't know if that kind of "blowing hot and cold" behaviour is conscious or not, but it sure is an effective way of keeping someone under your thumb.

I've just ended it with someone who blew hot and cold all over me for a full year. He got my expectations whittled down to the point where the slightest bit of attention or kindness from him was like, wow! so fantastic! And then of course, lots of periods where he withdrew and ignored me. The point where I walked was when he started to alternate the withdrawal-thing with being cruel and insulting. I knew then that if I didn't get out, it would just get worse and worse. But of course now that I'm out, I remember all the times he was loving and sweet... I know this is just a trap, though, so I'm not going there.

And so yes -- back to what I was saying at the start: I don't know if these were "conscious" manipulations on his part. But the effect on me was astonishing (compared to the smart and independent self-image I had before getting involved with him). I would literally be high when he was nice to me and close to suicidal when he wasn't. I justified some of his behaviour by saying that he was trying to control me because he was afraid of losing me. Making me miserable because he loved me!!! What kind of twisted logic is that?? Whatever the case -- whether he was knowingly abusive or not, the results were the same in terms of unhappiness. And I think that feeling confused like what you describe is a sure sign that you need some time out at the very least.

i couldn't agree more tokyo well said. however i do believe it is conscious and it is a powerful tool they use to control our emotions. it's really rather genius if you think about it. they know exactly what to say, when to say it, what tone to say it in and when to shift. physically abusive men i feel like it's more obvious b/c the violence comes literally OUT OF THE BLUE leaving us completely shocked and confused and believing that we must have done something b/c just a minute ago he was fine!!

look up cognitive dissonance on wikipedia or google and it will explain a lot i think....

if they keep us off balance then we will never leave that state of ambivalence with a decision one way or the other......

I have looked cognitive dissonance up and it describes what I feel, thank you Finnmyway.
I also feel really happy when he is contacting me and terribly down when he doesn't or acts indifferent. He agrees that lately it has been more due to using cannabis daily, but we have talked about it and he is doing it again, replying to my messages with yes/no answers and not engaging In conversation.
How are you dealing with the split Tokyorose?
I think if he stops contacting me it will be easier and hopefully the relationship will end then. Looking at it objectively I am not sure what I get from this relationship as he never has any money but yet drinks and smokes cannabis most days, his house is a dump, he blows hot and cold, he does not even satisfy me in bed really but I feel an amazing connection when we are in bed together.

IMHO that amazing connection you feel in bed is because you feel you've "won" something (in this case, his attention) -- it's not about the sex. I know all about that 'amazing' (read: illusory) connection. Though in my life I have, on occasion, had great sex with people I wasn't in love with, where the sex was just a mutual physical thing to be enjoyed. Unfortunately though, for me the best sex has ALWYS been in situations just like this: where I wanted his attention so badly that finally receiving it made me high as a kite. What can I say? I had an unavailable father who set my 'template' for male affection...

How am I coping with the split? Like most people, probably. I try to remember that every breakup hurts, no matter what the circumstances are. Everybody has to allow themselves to mourn the death of a dream. Of course, when abuse enters the picture, that puts a whole other spin on things. But plenty of people who break up with "nice" people can go off the rails in a bad way, too. I try to keep in mind that I am not alone, that I'm entitled to feel a bit crazy for a while, and that helps.

What I've found helpful is keeping the focus on me and my life (setting goals, tackling things I've been putting off, seeing friends) and consciously not allowing my brain to linger on him. When it starts to wander back there, I say firmly, "Brain, you are on vacation. You can think about him later!" All of this is effective to a degree. There are times when it's all too much and I come crashing down, and when that happens I just have to lie there and let the pain wash over me. But knowing I've done the right thing, knowing that he will NEVER change and that I will NEVER get what I need from this relationship -- that's what's keeping me moving ahead.

You are right he will NEVER change and I will never get what I need from this relationship either!
It's scary to think that I may never get what I need from any romantic relationship.

The confusion starts again, is it me who cannot cope with relationships or is it him making me feel this way :(

"The confusion starts again, is it me who cannot cope with relationships or is it him making me feel this way"

It is mostly YOU making you feel that way! I don't mean for that to sound cruel. But think about it. You're letting his words and actions dictate how you feel. You're putting all your happiness into his hands. Then you're taking what he says and does and using that to confirm your own worst negative beliefs about yourself.

It's a tricky thing to get your head around (especially if like me, you've spent a lifetime putting responsibility for your feelings in the hands of others), but... you are the only one responsible for how you feel. As Eleanor Roosevelt said, "Nobody can make you feel bad without your permission." Sure, we want the people we love to reinforce us, and reinforcement is part of a healthy loving relationship. But the real reinforcement has to come from within ourselves, first. Once we learn that, then we can see that someone else's lack of reinforcement is more about them than us, and it loses the power to hurt quite so much.

The fact that you're feeling insecure and "not a priority" are big red flags you shouldn't ignore; those are often signs that this isn't the guy for you. But I do think that knowing yourself, knowing your real needs, knowing your expectations and loving and accepting yourself for who you are will take care of a lot of your other questions ("is it me who cannot cope with relationships" etc.)...