My issue is not w/ wanting to chase bad boys. I don't chase and have no desire to be around bad boys anymore. It's been 2 yrs since the last one, and a yr and a half since I was attracted to one. I have no interested in them at all. I don't get excited, I don't get upset, I def don't try to chase. I just walk away and never give them another thought if/when I encounter one. I don't have any chase issues. If a man doesn't contact me, oh well. I won't try to get in touch w/ him. It doesn't bother me and I don't even worry or think about it. I just move on. I'm totally different than I was 2 yrs ago, with chasing unavailable men. I won't pursue a man in any way. I consider a man's job to court a woman, and if he doesn't want to do it, or can't do it right, it doesn't bother me, I just feel like he's not the guy I want. I'm pretty sure I've fixed any issues w/ being attracted to pathologicals. Now it's just a matter of being attracted to anyone. But I do think a big part of that is that healthy ppl really aren't entering my life yet.

i dont know really dbpalm. sometimes i think that too, i go back and forth all the time. but i do know, that i feel better about him now that he is showing ambition and working out and wanting to be something better than he is, so i supose its promising. but i also am not sure, that i know what exiting coversation is anymore, because everyone i have ever just laid around talking to and feeling interested, it was all lies. thoughts and dreams of greatness that would never come to be. he is starting to communicate to me more. not just sit and play video games. he helps around the house more. its alot better than it was.

and i totally agree with susy, but i got with him before i was ready, i knew i wasnt ready, but my ingenius brain said, give it a try, you might miss an oppurtunity. i know i should have waited. i was ready to be a single mom. i was ready to go to college, had a steady plan. and none of that has happened. do i blame him? no, i blame myself for allowing myself to get distracted. he was such a good friend, and really is a nice guy, i didnt want the friendship to end. now i know that it wouldnt have. but he is the only daddy my daughter knows, and i wouldnt take that away from either one of them. he is also the most stable person, emotionally, that i know. so now i just have to deal with what i got myself into. i do love him. he is really great, im just not sure if it is enough, and im in such a wishy washy emotional position, its hard to sort it all out. but for now, i dont want him to go.

Princess, you got to get that sympathy part out of your mind, you wrote in depth about how horrible it was for him, and how sorry you feel for him. its what kept me going back, i had to grow a hard shell.
i kept forgiving them, and forgiving them, making excuses, because they had it so hard. feeling sorry for them, trying to prove to them that in their life of hell i was the person who loved them, the person who could bring them to the light, the person who would be there, to help them be the man they were meant to be and we would go on to greatness together and have the life we always wanted and be happy ever after.... WHATEVER. just be careful, is all, dont get stuck in it again. its OUR LIFE, not theirs, we cant waste our lives on them anymore.

and AGENT, i never even realized i was chasing "bad boys" . i was thinking the other day, why oh why, did i never meet a good one? where did i meet most my ex's. bar. casino. party. third party friend refferral. someone i didnt really know, but i had met them a year ago so i used that as an excuse of how i have known them. SO, did i meet any of these people, in a healthy place? NOPE. these places are also my place of employment. so i am rarely in a situation where i would meet a truly nice guy. because most the people i meet and get to know in a casino or bar, is because they frequent there, and if you are frequenting quite often to a place like those, then you are not being entirely healthy or truthful with yourself. and thinking back, usually, it was me doing the getting together, and them agreeing to it. rarely was i pursued. so the first time someone did pursue me, i bit it, thought that he cared, my most recent ex. but it was WAY overdone. i would curse him out and he would bring me flowers? over and over again? i went and gambled my rent and come home to find 700 bucks on my pillow? way too much. he tried way to hard. who gives someone that kind of money without knowing them when they arent rich themselves?
but then again, thanks to my current guy, i now know what pursuing should be like. but when it comes down to it, i dont know, if i would really be attracted to a nice guy or not in a regular meeting. like a gym or college or the library. YOU are doing great though AGENT. let it run its course. dont force it like i did, let things happen as they will, let yourself heal as you need to, however long it takes.

I think that's true dbpalm. My N I have great sex but there is absolutely no stimulating conversation at all. It's something I long for in a partner. Someone to question and discover things about my thought and ideas rather than the next position we could try! It's something I really want in a partner.

sometimes sex is their way of bonding themselves to us, because during that time, they are so intimate, and they use it to control us. we feel loved and connected at that point, and as soon as it is over they are back to the same old crap.

Totally agree, DB. What can you begin with, if you cant even be bothered conversing with them cos they're boring you to sleep!
AgentSmith, I go out regularly with a bunch of friends, and the guys I have spoken to are either overly keen/clingy (red flag) addicted (red flag) too smooth (red flag) etc etc., or else they dont have two cents to their name, live with Mum, etc etc etc. These are men in their forties, by the way!
I'm thinking all this awareness of disordered men that we now possess has narrowed the field potential partners down to nil. My theory is that those that arent disordered are probably in happy stable relationships, and it's these disordered/pathological types we keep meeting, who havent got their shit together, because basically that's what is available.... and because we now have the knowledge NOT to hook up with those men, that leaves us with basically NOBODY. Whereas before we were ignorant and could blissfully hook up with all types of disordered indivduals who seemed wonderful/exciting etc, but of course it always ended after a while in tears. But I guess at least we had the illusion for a while that we could meet and fall in love with someone who excited us.
I dont want to be doom and gloom, in fact I'm happier on my own than I was on the roller coaster. But seriously the only girlfriend I know who has hooked up with a decent available man in the last few years was with a man whose wife died of cancer two years prior, and he wasnt alone because somebody couldnt stand being with him.
By the way, I'm not trying to date anyone... but I am putting my new skills to use by talking to people and picking whats wrong with them, and as you say, there's something wrong with ALL of em!!! (Good thing we're all so perfect, hehehe).
I'm allowing myself to see the humour in the situation instead, enjoy my freedom, and the possibilities each new day can now bring. I didnt have that sort of peace and hope before, and my life is richer for it. If a nice man comes along to enhance my life, jolly wonderful. And if he doesnt, I'm happy anyway!

Good for you, cazza!

I am having such a hard time rebuilding my life . . I was with him 18 years, 19 by the time you count the year of partial separation approaching the divorce. I feel depressed. The divorce was final just under three months ago and I suppose I need to quit expecting more, expecting more too soon. General rule of thumb being one month of recovery per year with them . . .

I think I am STILL struggling with feeling guilty - the frustrating cognitive dissonance. OMG, I do NOT want to be with him but I still struggle with feeling bad for him and seeing him as 'pitiful' instead of 'evil'. I don't know how to process through this. I've forgiven myself. Now, when those feelings come, I don't know what to do with them except deny them and stuff them, because they're not right. It is me . . . that being 'too nice', feeling 'obligated'. Gosh darnit, I'm too compassionate and empathetic and considerate and merciful!

Big example . . . he's getting laid off. Instead of feeling like he can pay me child support out of his unemployment, I know what bills he has and there just isn't much left over, therefore, I don't 'feel' like I can ask him for 20% of the child support.

Still loving too much . . although it isn't love at all I feel towards him . . but sure a lack of love I feel for myself.

Dont be too hard on yourself, and remember empathy is a wonderful thing to have, just that these guys dont deserve it.
I'd be the same, DB. Hard when you know his financial situation, and remember you're talking a VERY long time you were with this man. A lot of us are talking relationships that only lasted months or a few years, and look how we are all struggling. I cannot even begin to imagine being in a relationship with a disordered person for the length of time you have, children with them as well, and of course you feel the way you do... you are human and caring, and even if he doesnt deserve that, still you cant lessen what you are as a decent empathetic person, and nor do I think should you.
Whats the answer? I dont know. but theres no use pursuing whats right when it doesnt sit right with your own ethics, as it wont make you feel good within yourself either.
Can I say theres light at the end of the tunnel, that eventually the children grow up, time passes, things must surely get easier for us, and we will heal, and still be loving empathetic individuals and not lose that because of these men....
Theres always hope and life is full of changes....and I'm wishing all good ones for you!
Caz xo

Thanks, Cazza . . let me vent some more . .

Why can't I hate him? Because hate and vindictiveness and vengeance is not in me. But, he raped my soul . . over and over and over again. How? He knew he was selfish and he knew he was taking from me! He knew how I hated being groped and he would never, ever stop . even in front of the kids! He knew how I hated that perverted hold of hands (he would run his middle finger up and down my palm and I would squeeze his hand so hard to still it - but, then, I 'doubted' my feelings . . that it was perverted and when I should have yanked my hand away, I didn't, feeling like I couldn't 'reject' him). God, our marriage was one cycle of him wanting and needing and me rejecting and rejecting - because I knew it was wrong. I felt it was wrong. Now I understand . . every time he came to me to 'get' and not give or it be a mutual exchange, it was a rape of my soul and I conceded over and over and over again! When he would accuse me of being with other men, I would call him and answer my phone I don't know how many times in the course of a few hours or a day, so he would be reassured I was not with another man. I gave up everything to settle that insecurity in him (only, of course, it only grew!). I neglected our children because of his insecurity and fear of abandonment and self-pity! But, the problem is 'I let him!' Maybe I need to work through more anger at myself, first.

When I knew it was over, before I'd kicked him out, I was at church (one of the few times I went) and in worship, realized I was furiously wringing my hands. Surprised to feel myself doing that, I stopped, looked at my hands and hear 'Wash your hands of taking care of him!'. I knew God was telling me to stop. I did. It was hard because everything in me wants to smooth things over, make people feel better, you know! Maybe one time in the last ten months have I said one thing . . the 'counselor' in me - the exhorter, the encourager . . that says 'you'll be alright. God will figure out a way! You can find work. You need to call your kids because they're feeling abandoned' etc., etc. etc. You see, I carried him those whole 18 years. I figured out the money, I made the decisions, I parented the kids and him! I coached him to deal with his obsession with sex and his tormenting fear and jealousy . . Yeah - I am partially responsible for the perfect storm we created. He was so dependent on me and I provided everything he could possibly need - but of course, it couldn't possibly be enough. Not for a pathological. I almost let it kill me before I came to.

So, to go forward from here . . .

I didn't meet mine in unhealthy places. There are no casinos here and I don't drink or go to bars or clubs or anything like that. They are attracted to me like a magnet. A great example is my psychopathic neighbor who has climbed into my window. Even in my own home, these guys find me and will do anything to get to me, including climbing into my window.

My 1st bf I met in an XFiles chat room. We were both XFiles and Knight Rider fans. The 2nd one was the sex offender that found me on myspace (I am extremely careful about online stuff now because of that and don't add people to my fb friends list unless I already know them). And the 3rd, was a federal cop (someone who is supposed to be SAFE) who works in my federal building. The last N I was attracted to (a yr and a half ago) was another cop, local. And there was actually another N cop I was attracted to about 5 yrs ago. So even in the "safest" of environments, I would find the Ns and they would find me.

A yr ago, at the Trans Am Nationals, I met another one (also in law enforcement). He was the cousin of a guy I've known for years who I see at the car show every yr. I talked to this guy I know, like i do every year, and his N cousin immediately honed in on me and would not stop pursuing me. Even though he lived 8 hrs away and was twice my age w/ 8 kids, he basically demanded a relationship w/ me and didn't even consider the fact that I had a choice in this and I wasn't interested. It took a long time to get that thru to him.

I am just a magnet for Ns, and it's not just for romantic relationships. I attract them in all aspects of my life. Like my crazy neighbor who's always messing w/ me, getting himself in trouble w/ the law over it. I've ignored him for 2.5 yrs (since I moved in) but he still won't give up on trying to get attn from me and trying to control me (he's married). I have a N boss (female) who singles me out at work and I am treated very diff than everyone else. I had an psychopathic landlord a few yrs back who stole from me, locked me out of my place (because she was mad at me), and then tried to sue me for $5000 6 months after I moved out (leaving my ex still living there) and AFTER giving him the deposit back saying everything was fine. She came after ME (not him) for "damages" that she made up 6 months after he moved out telling him there were none. She didn't go after him (who she'd legally have to go after, him being the last tenant), she came after me.

They target me for a reason. And all that is rooted in childhood and being a child of an N. They know who will be an easy victim. And they are always on the hunt. That's why the landlord came after me when she needed money and not my ex (the last tenant and another N). This is a pattern that has repeated itself my entire life. I can think back to childhood where I was always approached by Ns. Some Ns was attracted to, yes. Others just won't leave me alone no matter what. I think when we have that kind of childhood, the ONLY people who come into our lives are people like this. And naturally we will be attracted to some and not others. I think there will always be a supply of them entering our lives, the trick is to change what is damaged about us that makes them see an easy target when they look at us. My neighbor doesn't screw w/ anyone else in the neighborhood but me. He sees me as a victim that he can get away with this behavior. He's not gonna attempt it w/ anyone else. Now I think he might be learning to not F w/ me either (after he got himself arrested). The secret is learning how to be assertive. Something I was never allowed to do as a child and is a very difficult thing to train myself to do now. The hardest part is practicing this assertiveness on the ones who have been in our life for a long time and are used to taking advantage of us. They are the ones that fight the hardest when we set these new boundaries.

Cazza, EXACTLY! I meet a steady supply of men who are needy, men who have addictions, men who still live at home in their late 30s to mid 40s!, men w/o drivers licenses, without jobs, etc. And I have thought the same thing you said, all the good ones have been taken by now. And I actually thought the only way to get a good one would be if it was one who's wife had died. That thought has gone through my head more than once. I hope that is not the case. I am ready to accept that healthy people in general (men and women) are a small percentage of the pop. But I do hope there are still some singles ones out there.

You all found addicts, N, etc...most of you are still capable to flirt with different men and I know that this people seem to be anything but the right partner. I think that looking at different men is a big step for most of us. Unfortunately, I have no eyes for anybody. My fellow workers are asking me the reason I am alone. How can!? They dont see anything wrong with me...well, they know that I suffer of depression but Iam controlling the way I was left by the ex.

I just think that jumping into another relationship is not for me. Im happier this way and I could easily go alone.

I gave up on men...all of the guys I dated were anything, but nice to me. No, Thanks! No more men. Is not my dream to be alone, but Im far more better this way.

Dpalm, a conversation is important but is better to look at the actions. If a man really loves you, he should do things for you. I may be wrong, but thats what I seen in healthy couples.