The issue, as I recall it, was that Floyd had a resentment towards folks who showed up at a grief support group holding hands and "glowing" in their new found love for one another. The conversation then became one about whether or not widows/widowers who have found room in their hearts for another were still welcome to participate in these specific types of forums.

The position that I took was that I will forever grieve for my wife, Barbara, and that is fact. But I also believe that God wants us all to be happy in our lives. Now, there are many folks who will never, ever entertain the notion of loving another again in their lives. And that is perfectly normal, acceptable, and right. For them. For others, they may remain open to the idea, but not actively pursue it. Again, this is perfectly normal, acceptable, and right. For them.
My position is that I want to be happy. And that is my right. Should someone enter my heart once again, and should I choose to open myself to another love, who is anyone to judge me? And where do I go to speak of my continuing grief?

That being said, I will still be grieving for Barbara. And I may still feel the need to seek support from others who are grieving as I am. And I may very well be of service to another grieving soul, through the experience gained from my journey. And as long as I do not flaunt my happiness and joy in my new relationship in the faces of those in pain, need I stay away? I don't think so.

Who may I ask had Floyds Post closed? Inquiring minds want to know!

I hate having to screen every feeling before posting something. I thought he posed a good question and brought interesting perspective to the subject. I feel bad for him having been censored by being removed. I did not find anything hurtful or offensive about what he wrote or any of the remarks that followed.

But why does one have to cancel out the other? I'm a daughter, but I'm also an orphan. But I'm still my parents' daughter. I'm a wife, but also a widow. If I re-marry, I'll be a wife, but still a widow, by definition. Right? I absolutely felt the same as Floyd, in the early months especially. I even felt resentment towards my widowed friends, much further out, who gave me advice. I resented everybody and everything. I'm thinking this is normal. It better be normal. My thinking has changed quite a bit over the last 2 years, thanks to a lot of feverish praying, posting and journaling. Hugs, Marsha

I have to agree with Marsha. One doesn't have to cancel out the other. I'm still kinda new at this-6months-, and maybe in time, I just don't know. To me, even the word dating sounds like so much work........getting to know a person totally all over again, ugh and going through all the crap.......I don't know. But I guess if its in God's plan, he better dam well drop that guy right smack in front of my face, otherwise, I don't think so. I still can't even imagine myself with anyone else.

Now Floyds issue, I guess I can see his point, but I can also see where these other people are coming from too. There maybe some unresolved issues (which should have been resolved before saying yeas to another marriage proposal).

The other thing is that maybe, just maybe, seeing these people can give a glimor of hope to others? But yes Floyd, I can see how and why this would be upsetting. I think it would bother me too. Even though I'm almost a counselor, being objective about this is hard for me right now and I have to say I'm on your side.

Missed this first time around.......after contemplating what has been written here.........my gut reaction would be the same as Floyd's...........At a w/w grief group I wouldn't want to share with those who are clearly now in a different place.............

It would not offer a glimmer of hope to me,........(no offense meant here...lol) because those involved in a new relationship are in a different place, I would think that they ,also ,would prefer a group dealing with w/w who now were in new relationships.....which would involve a whole new set of emotions I would think...........

Just sayin'.....................that's my 2 cents.............
L

Grief groups are for people who have lost loved ones. People who join are in pain, sometimes embarassed by crying or showing some anger and other emotions known to us who have suffered the same pains. My opinion is that it is extremely insensitive to bring any other person to the group meetings, such as a widow/widower who is now engaged or has remarried. What is said in the meetings is confidential and only for the ears of the bereaved, not their extended family members and friends. Such as, in AA, the meetings are closed except for the ocassional "open" meetings. If I knew there was an "outsider" at the meeting, I would either leave or say nothing that session, which would defeat the purpose of my being there. If a widow/widower has found new love, they no longer fit the defined purpose of the support group. Or, at least if they come to meetings, they should come alone. My opinion.

Just for the record:
on this subject there have been some who say that you are a widow/widower forever.....
accoding to websters a widow/widower is : a woman/man whose husband/wife has died and has not remarried.

Obviously remarriage does not take away the experience of having been widowed, but it does take away the title of widow/widower, at least according to the dictionary.

When in doubt ...ask. He could have asked this person why they continue in the grief support group and know rather than be angry that someone there has found a new love and happiness which should discount their reason for being in a support group. Perhaps they met at this support group, perhaps they have been members there for several years and have other friends in this group that they have developed friendships with and the group has become their social outlet. There are many what if's and only asking the question will he ever know the answer.
Presenting this topic as it happened to coincide with other events in this discussion group was timely to be sure.
There is no one who should stand in judgement of someone's need to participate in a grief support group. You don't live in their shoes.

The listing for this group says it is for anyone who lost a husband, wife or PARTNER.

Frank an I were not married because he died unexpectedly before we could as planned.

Thanks for letting me know I am not welcome here... really goes well with the comments earlier in the week about fat old bluehaired women. Of course, women was not the term used!

Real support!

I am truly confused over some of the posts in this thread and can't believe some of the things that I've read -- I hope that I have misread some of them. I agree with the ones that explained that as widow/ers we will also cherish and honor the memory of our deceased loved one. But life is for the living -- if when you are ready you meet someone that you can feel love and be loved back, you need to live that experience. That does not mean that you are erasing the memory of your deceased loved one. It simply means that God gave you the blessing at another opportunity of finding a little happiness in this very difficult thing we call life. That in no way diminishes the fact that we loved and remember and in a different form grieve our lost spouse or significant other!!! I totally disagree with anyone who believes that this is an exclusive club for widow/ers who remain single and not for those who were able to move on. I believe this website as everything in this wonderful country -- is for free expression of feelings stemming for a loss. I am not ready to meet someone and even if I did meet something, I am not sure whether I even want to remarry. That is a personal choice. But if someone entered my life and I was inclined to allow a relationship to take its natural course -- I would be right here not only for me, my grief over my husband that I lost -- but also to offer help to others through my experiences! This is one life. This is not a dress rehearsal. We cannot use widowhood as a shield and armor, much less a weapon to disqualify anyone who feels the need to share feelings in this private setting that only those who need to come here to read what others are going through in the hopes of either receiving answers to so very many questions we all have, but to offer the benefit of the wisdom we should be acquiring during this difficult time. I'm sorry -- but I am really pissed off at some of the posts.

The support group I have attended focuses on grief and its process. At times there is mention of remarriage or dating, and it is always emphasized that whether or not a widow or widower chooses to do so is a personal choice. Either way is healthy and perfectly fine.

However, the members who have entered the dating field or remarried no longer attend the support group, for they are no longer in need of what the group has to offer. Occasionally we will have a former member or a couple attend, but they don't discuss nor openly show their love for one another out of respect for others who are in the depth of grief.

I belonged to a cancer support forum last year. If you were a caregiver, you were active in the caregiver support group. Once your partner passed on, you were moved over into the grief group, for you were no longer a caregiver.

The widow and widower support group is for just that. If a member is now in a relationship or has remarried, perhaps there should be a separate support group for former widows(ers) in a new relationship.

Most of the individuals who post in this support group are in the depth or early stages of their grief. The last thing they want to read or hear about is dating or remarriage. I believe the same would apply to those who do not intend to seek new companionship.

If I were in a new relationship or remarried and continued to participate in this group, I would not acknowledge it out of respect for others who are clearly hurting. It's just that simple.

At the risk of stirring an already murky pot, I feel compelled to take a more grey approach to what many here have described as a black and white issue. To say those that were never married or those who are in new relationships don't belong here seems not only exclusionary, but analogous to burying our heads in the sand. I am a 40-something wife who has been widowed (did I say that correctly?) for 16 months, am not in a new relationship and don't intend to remarry. However, I have benefitted greatly from reading the perspective of others who have gone on to have relationships and even marry. I have not found their comments to be disrespectful of my state of grief and just because I'm not in the same place emotionally doesn't mean that reading their posts is going to offend or bother me. Beyond that, I have gone on to meet DS members in person who are new relationships and I enjoyed hearing their stories and know that I have made some lifetime friends. Just because I haven't chosen to go the same route doesn't mean I can't learn something from each and every person who has had their stomach kicked in by grief. That extends to those who were never married to their loved ones. Watch an interview with Ryan O'Neal when he talks about losing Farrah Fawcett and then tell me that he doesn't have commonality with what we have all gone through. I use that example simply because it is someone whose grief was made public by his celebrity, but it applies to others who have gone through the same thing less publicly, and perhaps with less support because they hadn't "officially" lost a spouse. I would further extend that to same-sex couples, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that I'd best not open here. I consider DS to have been a critical part of my support network over the past months and I really hate to see us keep anyone who needs that support from feeling welcome here. When I read posts that state things in adamant language I can't help but hope that those people will find some room for openmindedness, but I suppose it is just human nature. I have teenagers who are absolutely certain they have the right answers and I simply smile, knowing that life has taken me from that same place of assuredness to a more realistic view today. I've seen that same smile from others who are older or more mature or who have just more life experience about something than I have and I know that the process continues throughout life. I certainly don't have the answers for others, probably don't have many of them for myself, but I know that I grow a little everyday, in part by listening to and observing others. I hope DS can provide an open forum for all of us who are suffering the loss of a partner and I hope that can continue for us in the years to come, regardless of our relationship status. Our common thread is our loss and that will always be there. CJ

I just have to say I don't understand the comment that "if you were never married you don't belong here". I have a friend that was in a relationship for over 20yrs when her partner died. She was as devastated as any of us here. I do agree that widows/widowers that have gotten into a new relationship should probably not go to in person grief sessions. Not a good idea. However at this site I feel that anyone that has lost their partner needs us all. A marriage license does not make you anymore deserving of what this site has to offer. We all lost the one person that we loved over anyone else and we are all hurting. Why do or say anything to make that person feel unwelcome here. I don't think God would want us to deny a grieving person compassion just because there is no marriage license.

So basically this thread has now become about who can and cannot be a member of the DS widows and widowers group even if that was not the driveler's original question.

I suppose that was the obvious inference from the original posting that was removed by DS admin.

The answer is simple, DS actually wrote the terms for this community - you can see it when you view the support groups.

"This community is dedicated to those who have lost a husband, wife or partner. Anything is open for discussion here, with the hope that we can focus on grief, bereavement, life after loss, and continuing on after a great loss."

No mention of time expiry on being a widow/widower
No mention that people have to be legally married
No mention that the relationship has to be heterosexual
No mention that the person has to be still single and not dating.

Hope this helps.