Well, Downton starts next week in the UK (anyone who manages to watch it before it airs on PBS in the US, PLEASE do not spoil it for the rest of us here by sharing plot points; thank you!) so Digital Spy's got 10 teasers straight from the actors about their characters, plus pictures from the new season; for anyone interested: http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv/s183/downton-abbey/news/a514812/downton-abbey-10-secrets-about-series-four-from-the-shows-cast.html

Just saw that it was renewed for a fifth season! I can't wait until January for the start of the fourth!

Yep, the show was picked up for a fifth season by both UK's ITV and USA's PBS. I have (unfortunately) not been able to avoid all the spoilers online - because some places you just can't seem to avoid them - and a few of season 4's plot points I am not too keen on but will have to see how they play out before I really condemn the direction. From what I heard it's an uneven season which makes me think it will not be as good as last season (which had been better than season 2 but not as good as the first), but again, got to wait it out and see it to really get a better gauge on that. It's one of the few things I'm looking forward to January for though!

Just wanted to bump this post up so we're ready for the premiere... the show's back on in the US on Sunday, January 5th!

This thread will be for posting about the show... but please no spoilers if you've already been lucky enough to see the 4th season!

Well...did anyone watch this weekend? What did you all think of the start of the 4th season?

I can tell you right now I am not happy that Edna's back - you know there will be trouble there with that one and I get the impression she's even more of a menace than O'Brien ever was. I did like how they worked in the explanation of O'Brien not being around, since Siobhan Finneran decided not to return to the show. Just like O'Brien to leave like a thief in the night rather than give proper notice.

I'm still not keen on Edith's married love. Oddly, I was more okay with her plan to marry Anthony last season than I am with the guy she's with now. I sort of feel like now couldn't they find her a guy closer to her own age? Why does she always get the older guys...?

It seems like Lord Grantham's going back into his old mode of treating Lady Mary like a fragile piece of glass in order to be solely responsible for Downton again. I'm glad they had it where Matthew wrote that letter with the intention of making a will that would leave the majority of his inheritance to her and that it was deemed legally acceptable since it showed intent. It seemed to be the thing that would start to help her out of her doldrums - coldhearted Mary can be fun, but dower Mary isn't. And I know they have no intention of putting her and Tom together, but I do like their interactions and I like that he was so supportive of her being involved in the estate even though her father was not. I like that Tom seems more accepted into the fold now and he seems more at ease with it as well. But I don't see that keeping smarmy Edna from trying to get with him again!

And who would've thought Thomas' issues with Nanny West would turn out to prove her lack of character and not just be about his hatred for her attempts to give him orders!

I could go on, it was a two hour show after all, but I want to hear from everyone else who watched...

Lord Grantham is trying to make Mary into a withering child instead of a widow and mother. So glad she developed a backbone. I do not like Edna in anyway shape or form. Evil personified. I do like Tom being part of the family. Thomas is not to be trusted.

Edna's lover is married to a woman that will never get well and it is sad he cannot divorce but the bigger part of the story is him becoming a German citizen and that will be very interesting as they move closer to WW2.

LOVE that Mary is the sole beneficiary of all the eye encompasses. Game on!

It's an interesting development to make Mary the sole heir (or should I say, heiress) rather than have it still be George but in her care until he is of age. I mean, I can understand why Matthew would've thought to plan a will where his wife would inherit his estate but then again, given those times, if that was so easy to do then what was with all the fuss about Matthew having to be the one to inherit Downton rather than one of Robert's own daughters or Cora - I mean, I thought women weren't allowed to inherit estates like that back in those days in England, so how is it now legal and binding that Matthew showed intent in a letter to bequeath her the estate? I'd think legally back in the '20s they would've still insisted on it going to George but allow his mother to control his share in the estate until he would be like 18 or whatever. I'm not up on British law from the '20s so maybe somewhere in the time the show's covered those laws changed, but considering how important it was to find Matthew and the want of the family to get Matthew and Mary together and all and the hope she'd have a son... I mean, it's an interesting plot point because it gives her something new to be doing and also allows for more interaction with Tom who I would think she now feels a sort of kinship with for both being widowed and since Tom and Matthew were friends of a sort.

I don't trust Thomas either, and I thought he was just picking up where O'Brien left off when he told Cora about his feelings about the nanny, but I was thinking he was just getting his nose out of joint because she was trying to give him orders. I didn't pick up on her issues with little Sybbie until Cora overheard her and promptly dismissed her. I do find it weird that Cora's now calling him Barrow though - I guess we needed to differentiate between Thomas and Tom better...?

I assume you meant Edith when you mentioned the married lover - true that his citizenship issues might make for further issues down the road, but I don't know if they plan to ever get the show to the point where they venture into WW2 so it might not matter to their storyline so much. I'm just not keen on the character though; I really wish they could allow Edith to find a guy closer to her in age rather than make her always go for older castoffs. I mean, they've got like 3 guys lined up to try to woo Mary in the coming episodes that are closer in age to Mary and yet Edith's got to be stuck with the older married dude?

Well, I watched first episode!!

Hubby and I LOVED it!!

I am tired of all the inheritance complexities!! Hope it wont change again and is REALLY Mary.

I am amazed at how much plot development there is in each 2 hour episode!! It moves quickly. So, did the smartguy butler KNOW the nanny was abusive to the little girl, or did he just plant seeds of doubt that turned out to be true?? I just thought he ddnt LIKE the nanny.

So ALICE was the cause of the bad blood between Carson (?) and his vaudeville buddy! Will he ever warm up to that head woman who likes him??

It was quite a stretch to think an electric mixer would take away the servants' jobs, LOL!

Snailor, I rewatched the first episode and I am pretty certain on the second watching that Thomas didn't know about Nanny West being abusive to Sybbie, but he just didn't like her ordering him around and decided to cause trouble the way he and O'Brien used to. He merely pointed out to Cora that Nanny West was leaving the children unattended sometimes, which she was in a way when she'd track him down and ask him to put in some request to Mrs. Patmore or what have you. It just made Cora suspicious of Nanny West though so she paid more attention to listening in to the nursery than she probably otherwise would have. Thomas lucked out on that one... but now it makes him look more respectable in Cora's eyes. Cora always has a tendency to trust the wrong servants though, what with her support of scheming O'Brien and hiring Edna and all her newfound love for Thomas.

I didn't find Carson's backstory bit worth much of the time spent on it, to be honest... but perhaps now that he's put aside his issues with his old mate regarding his lost love, maybe he will find room in his heart for Mrs. Hughes. Those two certainly seem very "old married couple" already, don't they? They're like the mom and dad of the rest of the staff, so perhaps they wouldn't ever go there but you never know...

Makes you wonder though, all these servants living under one roof all single, why wouldn't more of them go the route of Anna and Bates. Speaking of Bates, why is it that even though Anna is married to him she still calls him Mr. Bates? You'd think being married to him earns her the right to address him as John even in the work setting, no?!

I can see why Mrs. Patmore would be concerned about that mixer costing some jobs - technological advances that make their jobs easier could also have been taken to mean "you shouldn't need as much help down here now" and thus some people could've been let go for it. With Daisy and Ivy adapting to new gadgets easier, Mrs. Patmore could easily think she's expendable should they opt to cut down on staff. I'm sure she makes far more than her kitchen underlings do...

I watched this week's episode but I want to wait until others have seen it as well in order to comment. I knew of the big plot twist that this episode contained (it was the only spoiler I saw after the show aired in the UK late last year) but I'm still not sure how I feel about it as a plot device or how they chose to handle it. I imagine the US airing significantly cut down on the scenes though to remove a lot of what was objected to in the UK. Having not seen those scenes that were removed, I'm not sure if it helped or hurt the storyline. I'm curious what others thought but I'm trying not to say to much yet in case someone reads this before they get around to viewing the second installment (which if I am not mistaken equates to episode 3 from the UK showing for anyone who watched prior to now that might be trying to follow along).

They are so proper as formal servants at Downton, that I would be surprised if Anna called him John.

Oooh, you think they cut out some scenes for US audience? After we watch it, will you tell us what they were?

OK, I watched the next episode and am ready to discuss when we all have seen it.

(VERY DISPLEASED. If this hideous soap opera plot continues, and we all have a hint of the result of this show, then It will be a deal breaker for me. Such a blow to their dignified narratives!! )-: )

They're so proper I wouldn't be surprised if she even called him Mr. Bates in bed... but still, no one calls her Mrs. Bates, so why does she address her own husband as Mr. Bates still? Just seems a bit strange. Maybe in public it's one thing, but surely in a private discussion she could call him John, you'd think anyway...

I didn't see the UK version so I can't say for sure, but I do know the PBS honchos have said one of the reasons they decided not to move up the air date of the show here in spite of people getting annoyed by spoilers online last season was that they edit the show for time and content. Seems odd they have to edit for time given that the UK airing involves ad breaks and PBS doesn't have ad breaks, but still. For us, we got a two hour premiere while in the UK those two hours were separate episodes. I imagine given what happened in this past weekend's episode, they did edit out some scenes. I thought it was cut oddly because we went from her being pulled into the office to the performance upstairs and then nothing about Anna again until Mrs. Hughes found her cowering in a corner. I would guess there was something more in there since so many people in the UK objected to the storyline being graphic; what we saw was more alluding to what was going on than actually seeing what went on.

That said, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it seems like a senseless plotline and it's all the more annoying that Anna and Mrs. Hughes would agree to cover it up rather than inform anyone for the sake of keeping Bates from finding out and possibly going off the rails. Surely the entire house would rally behind her, but I can understand her fear that Bates would not control his rage against the man and surely the justice system would not take pity on him since he was previously in prison, even though it was a wrongful conviction. Still, I can't help but think they'll go down the super soapy "who's the daddy?" slope in a few episodes; I hope they don't because surely they can do better, but that's the naturally lazy direction to take this. My other thought on the situation that occurred is that while it's a senseless plotline, the act in and of itself is a senseless and I think it was meant to juxtapose the gathering upstairs and the opera singer and all that; horrible things happen every day while we're having a good time sort of thing and life isn't always singing and dancing.

I still think the plot device would work better if they hadn't decided to have Mrs. Hughes find her and agree to cover it up but maybe instead have someone like Thomas find her since he would've been more torn as to whether to even help Anna at all or whether he'd tell Bates since there's no love lost between them and all; or if Mr. Carson found her - I doubt he would've gone along with hiding it completely, he would've insisted on telling Robert who would've told Gillingham that his valet is a criminal and the guy could've gotten his comeuppance without Bates going after him. I think more people would be less infuriated with the storyline if they didn't opt to cover it up after (or better yet, if someone like Thomas walked in on the act and fought him off, like if the guy got his due in turn... not to say people would accept the storyline but it is something that happens so it's not like they went far fetched with it. Just wish it was more thought out how they decided to handle throwing it in.

Oh, I forgot to even mention Edna slipping in to, I assume, Tom's room. Ugh. Why must they?

The first 2 hours seemed like we got Tom to a place where he was more self assured in his role with his in-laws and more accepted and all; I really wish this episode didn't have him fall back into the old "I don't belong here" rut that he was in after Sybil's death last season.

So basically, nothing about this episode was a good development, if you think about it....

Mrs Hughes could have went to Mr. Carson, and they could have called Mr. Bates into the office and kept him there till he calmed down.

As it is, this will dominate much of the plotline for Season Four.

Im tired of Tom's whining, also! A large reason they want him there is so Sybbie is with them. Maybe if he is found in a compromising situation w/ Edna, they will challenge his parental fitness. Then he will be forced to leave, but not with Sybbie.

By hiding the incident from her husband, Bates may think she had an affair with the valet, when the truth comes out. Maybe Bates is infertile.

Oh, I hate where this is going, I want to see an intelligently written Downton Abbey!

The aftermath of this episode will definitely take up the majority of the season I think, not just Anna's situation, but Tom's as well. I know they were billing this season to be more about Mary trying to move on after the loss of Matthew, but it almost felt like that was barely even part of the story last week, even though there were a few possible suitors for her at that party.

It's funny, you had mentioned Anna's story being very soap opera plot-ish, but I also think the same of Tom, with his back and forth acceptance of his come up in life via marriage. I mean, he surely knew by marrying Sybil he would be in some way involved in this higher life and by marrying her meant he'd get higher status, even before the whole mess in Ireland. It wasn't like he dealt with it well even when she was alive so it's not like he's suddenly uneasy about it because she's gone. But based on the amount of time that has passed in the storyline, she's been gone for like 2 years now. And he was made the manager of the Downton estate by Matthew about a year after her passing, maybe more. So he's had a position in the family and in the workings of the estate that basically straddles the upstairs/downstairs issues. Surely by now he'd feel like he fits in more - and really in the first two hours they made it seem like he did. So the fall back now for the sake of having him sleep with Edna just seems like a silly soap opera plot as much as what happened to Anna did. At least we didn't have to see anything beyond the door closing...

I didn't even think about Bates maybe thinking Anna had an affair should he find out at a later time... but then again, if he does hear about it later, Mrs. Hughes can back up her story to an extent from the state she found her in, plus Bates did see her face all cut up and that she changed her dress so I think he would put two and two together. I can't imagine him thinking she would have an affair though since they're so in love and all and after all she went through trying to help get him released from prison, I doubt he would ever think she would suddenly cheat on him willingly.

Considering how good last season was, this season is not starting on the best foot, that is for sure....