Hi Lonely.

My spouse came out inadvertently to me 2 years ago. Apparently he had, as a child, told his parents and adults around him that he was a girl and didn't understand why he was supposed to play with boys. The reaction he received was not good and so he repressed those feelings and blocked the memories from his mind. As a teen he stole bras and panties and makeup, however never told anyone and thought he was a freak or a cross dresser, he said he didn't have a name for what he was. He explained the dysphoria to me as building and building until you need a release. That could be makeup, shaving his legs, wearing women's clothes, ect. Then he would feel better for awhile and the process would begin again. When he came out it had built up so bad that he was suicidal and just putting on makeup was not longer helping. By the time this all happened and he had a name for what was going on with him we had been married 13 years and had 3 children. It took another 4 years for him to tell me what was going on. In those 4 years I lost my spouse. He wouldn't get out of bed, wouldn't be part of the family, it got so bad we were talking divorce. He is a happier person now, although not all the time since he is not out full time yet. We are working on this.

I have a few questions for you. When your wife told you what was going on was she willing to discuss with you? Answer questions? Has she had these feelings since childhood and couldn't find a "release"? Is she wanting to transition fully or is she willing to work with you on her transition and timeline for it?

As for the views on gender, everyone has one. Here is how my spouse explained it to me: he felt like everyday was Halloween. He had to put on the "male" costume and act like everyone expected him to. He did the things the "dudes" were supposed to do, like loving UFC fighting, football, facial hair, being a "guy's guy", but inside that was all killing him. When he looks in the mirror he feels like he should see a woman looking back at him, but there is just this man he was born into. So he doesn't believe it is total personality based, his sense of humor and overall personality hasn't changed, but moreover how he sees himself and is perceived by the world.

Hope this helps and I'm sending you a hug. You are not alone and your emotions are valid and ok. So are your wife's. There is a healthier place you can get to, but it is a lot of work. And your wife has to be willing to put in the work as well.

My wife was tomboyish as a child, but most of that came from wanting to be able to "climb trees", "play sports," etc. She then realized that girls could do those same things. Also the fact that to her mother, women should do everything they can to please men, but if a woman actually did that, she'd be labeled a whore. My wife's mother has severe mental health issues that have never been addressed, that also had a detrimental effect on my wife. her father (her parents are divorced) is no better, egotistical, misogynistic, distant, etc.

She wants to (and already has in a lot of venues) transition socially. She said she doesn't have a problem with her body. (In fact, she has always been very happy with body, One of the most positive body imaged people I know.) However, she is going to see a medical Dr. at a local gender clinic later this month, where I am afraid, they will suggest hormones. And since my wife is caught up in this, she may do so. Keep in mind, this is the same wife who never wanted to take birth control because of the hormone issues, and hardly ever will even take an advil for extreme pain.

I just feel like that view on gender is so simplistic. I don't believe I am a man because of the things I'm interested in/not interested in. It's all just stereotypes. Anytime someone tried to define "gender identity" that's what it comes down to: feelings and stereotypes. I don't believe your personality/interests has much of anything to do with your sex. To believe so is regressive. It's socially imposed. I could not care less about UFC, football, etc. and I don't feel like that makes me any less of a man. I also don't feel like a woman who does like those things is any less of a woman because of that.

I appreciate the virtual hug and well-wishes, but I cannot say I agree with you about these things.

I feel and believe exactly the same way you do

Hey Sport, are you on Facebook? Apparently, there is a FtM group there that has quite a few people in your situation. We have had a few women on here whose partners are transitioning to male, but really not many and no men that I remember.

I know what you mean about that mob mentality though. I have seen it on some of the trans community's message boards. If you read enough, it seems as if everyone is transitioning and most people only post the good parts, and when I negative is posted, the community rallies around the member who has been hurt and criticizes those who were unsupportive or whatever.

And I'm not saying that is a bad thing. For those who are truly struggling, it is great that they have a place to find that support. For others though, it can confuse them even more. I have seen the same thing happen in other communities too. Specifically infertility groups, adoption groups, etc. It is that mob mentality and the sense that you have to join in and take those same steps if you are to be accepted.

Fortunately, if you can step away from the community for a few weeks/months, the desire to do those things subsides. Would she be willing to take a hiatus from all of it for a few months and then revisit it?

I say that because many of the spouses here and in other groups I'm in say that their spouse/partner really hates their body, and you say the opposite about your wife. Also, coming out to family, friends, and co-workers is a really big deal, but from how you describe it, your wife did it quite easily - almost as if it is attention-seeking. Those things just don't mesh with the accounts we usually read about here.

So, how far does she want to take this? Hormones? Do she present as a man? What are your boundaries? How far are you willing to support her in this whether she is doing it to "go along" or whether it is a genuine compulsion for her?

Is she willing to take things at your pace? Would she be willing to research both the benefits AND the risks of hormones? Can she tell you how she expects male hormones to affect her? Doing the homework could dissuade her from going any further if she really isn't trans.

Good luck to you.

Thanks, Ldmessing. It's always nice to know I'm not alone.

1newstart, Thanks for your reply!

I am on facebook. I'll search it out and see.

I think part of it is the switch in terms from "transsexual" to "transgender." Transsexual means something. it requires a diagnosis, there are mental health interventions, and then as a last resort the physical transition with surgery and hormones.

With the change to transgender, it became all about identification. No need for diagnoses, mental health screenings get deemed "gatekeeping," and it can really mean almost anything, rendering it essentially meaningless. However, since they're conflated these people start to think they need the hormones too.

We have a two week family vacation planned for the end of the summer. I know that's probably not long enough, but i'm hoping it'll clear her mind a little.

I'm not entirely sure how far she wants to take this. Initially she said it was mostly about the clothes and hairstyle, outward appearance, etc. And that is totally fine. However, I feel like with the push from these groups to go deeper and faster, etc, and with the "affirming" stance of gender clinics, I don't know. I don't think she actually even really wants to be a man. I think she wants what she thinks that might mean, I think that's true of a number of people who get involved in the trans community. She doesn't look like a man, still. She looks like any number of women who don't completely give in to societal gender expectations, and i think if she got out of that sphere for long enough and had people really talking to her from less of an "affirming" POV, she'd maybe see that's all she really wants. Which would be great.

I think part of it also has to do with a lot of trauma in her past, and wanting to change her name to in some way distance herself from all of that.

She kind of clams up when asked about what she actually wants from this. Like what her goals are. That's one reason I'm hoping we can see someone soon who might help us find a better way to communicate about this, because I think we both have a lot of high feelings about it, and its hard to remain calm and collected without a referee of sorts, then we both just get upset, and part ways without any resolution.

I swear the problems in my marriage came to a head when my husband found transgender/crossdressing websites and forums that went over the top to validate him and vilify me.

Yes, "transgender" has become an umbrella term for any non-gender conforming state, so it can muddy the water a bit.

I hope you are able to find someone who is able to help the 2 of you communicate better. That is so important and absolutely vital if a marriage is to thrive.

Good luck to you.

Hi SportRocque! I know we are mostly a bunch of ladies here with spouses doing the MtF thing, but please feel welcome. ^_^ We are here for you too!

I know how you feel about the wanting to be apart of a group thing. I have a friend who always seem to want to "claim" something--being pansexual, being gluten-free etc without even knowing what these things are.

Sometimes I think this of my spouse too. That my spouse wants another "project." He's all about "improving" himself.

Discussing goals are really important and I'm really glad you guys are going to go to a therapist. For me, I think my spouse is having a really hard time making decisions, and hey, that's fine, but I think you'll have to figure out what you want in your life too. I think I'm getting to the point that my spouse may need all the time in the world, but I can't live with all this indecision. But that's just me.

*hugs*

SportRocque, yes I second it, I am so glad you are here. We are here fo ryou

Hi Cora,

Thanks for the support.

I am barely hanging on most days lately. Again last night she was out until 2:30 AM doing who knows what. Apparently one of her “supportive” friends was having some kind of mental health crisis. A woman who gets involved with any “issue” she can. I think she’s another person with a poorly defined sense of self. I think these people are much more prone to supporting or being a part of these “ideologically pure” groups.

Anyway, I want my daughter to have both of her parents, but I worry about the mental stability of my wife.

Thanks again to you all for being so welcoming.

It sounds like you're really struggling, and it's great that you two will be in therapy, both individually and together. "Barely hanging on" is a rough place to be in, but know that you ARE hanging on, and you will get through this. It is entirely fair to share with your partner that this is a struggle for you too, and though you love them, it will take you time to understand what they are going through.

I have an FTM partner who is just starting to transition, and I myself identify increasingly as gender nonconforming. Because my positive attitude towards transition has not been generally well received on this site, I hesitate to comment; but you say you don't agree with the echo chamber effect of spaces where people only agree with each other (which seems to be your perception of trans support sites), so I thought I'd offer my perspective. To my understanding, gender is about how the world perceives you and how you express yourself. That does sort of mean that gender is "performative"--for everyone, trans or cis (read some Judith Butler who kind of agrees with you that gender doesn't really exist. Link below). This can get complicated: for instance, I have friends who describe themselves as butch lesbians who are way more "masculine" than other, more "feminine" friends who are FTM. People who transition have been put into a box by doctors, society, and family, and they are simply trying to build a new box for themselves that ACTUALLY fits who they are. It is totally normal for your partner to not know where this will all end up at this stage. They need time to figure it out, just as you do. It's likely that their ultimate "goal" is just to feel comfortable in their own skin, and they don't know exactly how they will accomplish that yet.

I know the prospect of this journey may be hard for someone who doesn't know a lot of trans folks, but you may want to consider that your partner has been deceptive because they were afraid of exactly the reaction that you are having. They must know that you don't agree with transitioning, and view it as some weird bandwagon, and so are uncomfortable discussing it with you. It's good you're reaching out to other spouses, but it might be a good idea to somehow talk to or watch videos about some trans people as well other than your partner, to understand their perspective a little bit. Because even if you don't agree with it, it seems like this is your partner's path, and if you want to be on it with them, you may need to consciously develop some empathy. Especially since you have a child together--your child DOES need both parents, so you and your partner need to come to some kind of middle ground regardless of whether or not you stay together. Also, if you are worried about mental stability, most trans people are more mentally stable after they transition, because they are no longer dealing with the effort of trying to be something they are not.

Here are some possible resources if you're interested in other perspectives.

https://www.cla.purdue.edu/english/Theory/genderandsex/modules/butlergendersex.html

https://www.hrc.org/explore/topic/transgender?utm_source=GS&utm_medium=AD&utm_campaign=BPI-HRC-Grant&utm_content=276042104804&utm_term=trans%20people&gclid=CjwKCAjw7cDaBRBtEiwAsxprXbEzESwmvSiALBInsyQq3NmezV4tXJCqIjvW-KkVHTv8EaR93Fd0PhoCj5sQAvD_BwE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MUIYlaWVUk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5JRMHwehM4

This experience has definitely crystallized for me the differences between:

1) gender roles

2) gender expression

3) gender identity

4) sexual orientation

All of them are different and distinct even though gender roles and gender expression get worked into gender identity. Mostly I think of gender identity as what you see/want to see when you look in the mirror, all the rest is just details.

Well, I guess that's reflective of my spouse's struggle. He doesn't need to transition socially, but he wants to transition medically. He wants to feel better when he looks in the mirror and he wants to feel better psychologically.

Hi Ayet,

I am no fan of Judith Butler. I recently read this piece that helped articulate why:

https://janeclarejones.com/2018/07/18/post-structuralism-butler-and-bodies/

I'll respond to the rest later.

I know a few trans people, and I can't honestly say I'm a huge fan of any of them.

I've known my wife for ten years. She's acting completely out of character. She went for a run at 9:30 last night, and fell, and cut open her lip, chins, hands, and elbow. She hasn't even gone for a run in 6 years or more, especially not one after dark, in the urban park near our house. She's been staying out until 2:30 on a relatively regular basis. Never did that before. She's cold, uncaring, and kind of narcissistic, taking tons of selfies, when she used to make fun of people who did that.

She's erasing the past to keep it more in line with the trans narrative. Saying things I know aren't true, based on my having been there too.

I've tried to find sane, rational examples of people that would help me to understand, but they all come across the same.

And why is it that I have to develop more empathy? When she is going the other way, and becoming cold, cruel, and indifferent to everyone except her sycophantic friends. I have seen no evidence that she is any happier or more mentally stable, and plenty that seems to show the opposite.

That TED talk is disturbing AF. The culture is changing because we're telling kids that if they don't conform to stereotypical gender roles and interests that they're actually the opposite sex. It's regressive. And I think its steeped in misogyny.

Gender Nonconforming shouldn't have to be related to trans-ness at all.

SportRocque,
My spouse is MtF and I got blindsided by it too. Feels like you always read these accounts of people who were in miserable pain and suddenly a lightbulb went off and aha! they're trans! And spouse has the same spark of understanding and all is well. Instead, like you, I got blindsided by this (she was only a little depressed as far as I knew), and is now a coldhearted, selfish person whose personality has changed to the point where I'm also wondering if she's mentally ill and said as much to her therapist.

Per some trans people some folks transition and try to leave all ties to the past behind. Therapist confirmed this with the exception being kids, which I'm hoping is the exception for my spouse too.

Tired of hearing trans people claim everybody is fundamentally the same.

If somebody hasn't mentioned this by the way, dealing with the transition of the spouse is often described as dealing with the death of a spouse, including stages of grief. Worth looking the stages of grief up to see if it will help you deal with this.

You may be a rarity as a male, but you're not alone here.