Us & Them? I view it more as a continuum of possible degrees of empathy. Usually I try and hedge my bets, and say very little. Saves everyone the embarrassment of having to respond appropriately, me the embarrassment of cringing at how dense too many people are.

Even w/ close friends who know vague details of what I've survived, lent me emotional support at the time, the preference is to keep it vague. Rare exceptions exist, but oh so rare.

In this group here on DS we know many readers will get it.

I never know how to read reactions to my story, "civilian" or brother or sister in healing. My hyper-vigilance remains too intense for me to have faith in my reading of reactions after I tell any portion of my story. I strive for simple acceptance of their reactions. My unchecked pattern is to over analyze reactions to the point of declaring myself a first rate mind reader.

I definitely stay away from any "us" and "Them" thinking. I am already paranoid enough already and work to keep my pronouns well defined to specific dialogues. You, mujicaptsd, remain a single individual, even when you agree with another person in my net.

Gosh Arfie, "Simple acceptance", wow, I understand how hard it is to perceive the simple reality of that - even if it were to be hitting me in the face. My hyper-vigilance would probably have me second guessing the voice of God

Smiles, I like the way you put it, "coming out with PTSD".
I never really thought about it that way. Reflecting, I dont really tell anyone of have befriended in last 5 years. Prob because I experienced what you did, I had 1 "friend" literally run away from me. She suddenly "had to go". I was surprised by her reaction. I didnt get upset. I have come to learn most people dont get it.

I have a very small handful of friends that I am emotionally intimate with, we are truly supportive of each other, knowing about all the warts. I feel like that is true friendship and it is difficult to find and create these relationships.

Other "acquaintances" , I keep things light. Guess I dont get close to these people. I see they dont really have ability for a deeper connection.

I can see from your story-experience, where this would be frustrating for you. You have provided much emotional support to this person for many years. And got kind of a duuuh response. Maybe once this friend has had an opportunity to process things, will be more supportive??

Thanks for sharing and bringing up this issue.

I don't think an "us & them" mentality is helpful either, but I understand where you're coming from. Yes, I have had that experience. Several months ago, I had a flashback of sexual assault. I called a prayerkine and was that because I was not raped, nothing happened to me. I felt violated, angry, and hurt

I'm sorry it didn't work out or you. At least it sounds like you did no harm. I fully understand the Us/Them scenario, or at least I THINK I do. It's always been that way for me. You folks here on DS are ALL I HAVE. I have no other support. No Dr., or therapist, wife is in denial, daughter is "yeah, like, whatever", just nothing but DS and the friends I've made here. So far, you've been enough.

I don't know if the paranoia is keeping me from "coming out", but it's so strong, and the risk is too great (at least in my mind) that I just can't do it. I've been holding on now for a few years, but I know I'm slipping, and I just hope when the time comes, "they" aren't as bad as "we" think. Time will tell.

I wish you all the best.
~theGuardian

Jen,

I like your distinction between trauma and TRAUMA, clear succinct way to look at it. Also why many of us keep our explanations to others pretty vague.

Your suggestion of having a MEGA-TRAUMA group, are you thinking this would be really therapeutically helpful for you and others who have survived such things?

I don't have MEGA-TRAUMA but there is so much in my little life I prefer to not share. I tell many things to my therapist, and I have journaled at home the worst of it when it was 'fresher' and I needed to let it out. But have always perceived I want to make progress w/ issues w/ out bathing too much in the slime. I want to let time take its healing course and let bad stuff float off into the past.

So I am earnestly asking your perspective/therapeutic philosophy on this.

Thanks Jen, generous offer.

Hey, everybody, I thank you for entertaining these thoughts. More than anything, the discussion among yourselves. I'm glad the "us vx. them" didn't get total traction. I've worked hard not to adopt black and white views of the world in all other areas of my life, so it felt odd for it to come down to that here.

I want to grow more in that area--and will with your shared experiences. On the other hand, I feel really validated by what you say about your own experiences communicating what we've been through and what it means. Talk on, if you wish to. This is good stuff. Blessings, all!

I have always been open and honest about almost all of the things in my life. As my trama became more apparent, the more I wanted to talk about it and not talk about it. I know many people don't want to hear about what has happened to us. How many people want to hear about how badly we have been abused or other horrible things that have happened to us. I have found out the people who love me the most will listen and not be judgemental. I have had one person who has listened to everything that happened to me. We had many discussions about how I ended up with PTSD. He knows how important he is in my life. I have a hard time dealing with therapist. I don't want to go to deeply into my mind very often. So, they don't get to hear all about me. It is a long process. I do talk about my abuse fairly openly. I tell everyone what I had been through with some detail until it begins to disturb me. I figure if those people find me not worthy of being around then fine. What I do know, the people who care the most for us, will stay with us and listen. It seems to me no matter where I am or what I am doing, I manage to end up talking about my abuse. And I don't worry about how others react. We are who we are. Our problems are part of us. Our freinds and family need to accept us just the way we are. I hope this is helpful and not too rambling. I just got started and ended up here.

mujicaptsd, I've had the same problem--very frustrating. You feel like you've made a lot of deposits in the relationship bank, and then when you finally try and make a withdrawal--nothing.

It sounds like your friend might be one of those one way type of friends, meaning the support and listening flow one way--his. When you tried to reverse the flow, he didn't want to oblige.

It's possible he is just freaked out by hearing about your trauma. That happens when we experience something horrific that rarely happens to others. People are usually far more sympathetic to someone with cancer than someone who has been raped.

I have a good friend who I am fairly intimate with, and I've heard a fair bit about her problems, and she mine. But there is a point where I cannot share, she diverts the subject or suddenly has to go answer the door. I realize that she just can't take it in--she doesn't want to know that the real world can have so much tragedy and cruelty.

It's frustrating, but it has taught me that you can't really expect people who haven't experienced something high on the trauma-o-meter to be able to hear you easily. Especially if they tend to be naive, they don't want to hear that the world can be brutal.

The other non-hearer is the lovely narcissist, who can suck you dry for years, telling you about all of his "traumas" and will shut you down in seconds if you ask him/her to reciprocate. Definitely don't want to share with those folks either.

So, in my round about way, I guess I'm saying that I do agree there is a "them" and an "us". But that division is just because of our experience. Without that experience, we'd be a them too.

Excellent topic Muji.

Like you, I've lent an understanding ear to many people over the years who needed to talk about their problems. "Understanding" being the key word here. I have heard some odd confessions in my life, and like you, I listened without judging. Was always told what a great listener I was. Yeah.....

But let me open up about my ptsd and watch the not-so-subtle-avoidance of the topic by those same people. You get these strange looks that make you wanna go look in a mirror to make sure you haven't grown an extra eye or body limb.

Those kinds of reactions use to shut me right down. But, as I've gotten older Muji, I seem to not care what people think so much. Not that it doesnt bother me from time to time.

I think you have to get to a place in yourself that you realize you deserve the same understanding as you give. As with any type of relationship, it rarely is a fair and square 50/50.

No matter what though, we have the people here on DS who do "get it" and won't run away screaming when we talk.

most people are just so freaked out that they don't know what to say. then they usually say something stupid. 99.9% of the time people only hear those types of stories on tv or in books. I think the intial shock that they are face to face with a real person who has experienced something so traumatic is just too much for them. they don't want to hear it. i think people don't want to believe that other real humans are really committing such atrocities on other real human beings. i guess it's just easier to pretend it doesn't happen until it happens to you and you can no longer deny it. this is the thing i keep telling people and i will never shut up. as long as we are made to feel like we shouldn't talk about it, it will never stop. this is the main reason that abuse continues...because of the stigma that society attaches to the victims.
never. give. up.
*peace* & *hugs*

I have a hra time talking to 'civilians' if you can call those callous bastards that.

People are always asking me questions...I'm a person that HATES to lie...Why do i have to invent stuff for their sake?! so that they don't have to hear something THEY won't like and will make them feel uncomfortable..

I'm at the point that next time people start with their questions...I'm gonna be like "Unless you're prepared to hear some stuff you won't like or you like sad stories is best i don't answer your question"..

The prob is the things they say.....

One guy kept asking me questions i told him very little of why i had PTSD what was done to me i guess as punishment and he laughed saying "What did you do?!!!"............

There is nothing a child can do to deserve what was done to me..........Its just makes me so angry he said that....

Another asshole said "in my days there was no such thing as child abuse you just dealt with it"...............As if saying that now people are making a big deal out of nothing...

"civilians" or ignorant bastards....IB. :)

You may like this article it talks about exactly that how people see us..

http://whatprivilege.com/non-survivor-privilege-and-silence/