i wouldn't say it's a common dx.

but certainly common on a PTSD board.

i lived with one.
scary person.

It is fashoinable to diagnose everyone who isn't selfless as a narcissist. For example, "He's such a narcissist!" or "He's got a narcissistic personality!" are commonly heard in contexts like "wow, my boyfriend irritated me by going to the sporting event" or "my husband didn't take out the trash".

NPD is real. World, obey me! You are my mirror! ANd if I dislike what the mirror shows, I break the world!...

Every0one has some narcissism, e.g, certainty that the self is the bes tperson for any job/situation/etc. THere's a scaled test for how much you've got, actually. I scored below normal. My late dad would've scored high (that is, in the NPD diagnosis range). But as we all know, it's never that simple. Some malignant narcissists give others PTSD (thanks, Dad). Others with some degree of NPD go into politics or show business. Whatever. Point is: Narcissism of itself is not malignant.

The outstanding traits of NPD are the contradictory abyssal self-loathing emptiness and monumental self-adoring external grandeur, from what I understand.

It's become, like "she's borderline", "hip" to diagnose others with. Thing is, psych definitions vary, and right now it's hip to also hve PTSD. (?!?!) Unless a shrink is talking, I ignore the narcissism dxs. My dad got a posthumous dx based on what I told my shrink about his actions. I wasn't alone in describing him thsu. My husband met him, spent time around him, and could verify several things. That, plus my sister's own words (long story), led my shrink (a psychiatrist-neurologist) to think my dad had NPD. He thought it might be useful for mme to know, in terms of my own healing.

People can self-dx and other-dx all they want. Till I get the word from a pro, I'll just say "messed up" and move on.

Purrs from the puma,
Leo

*common to be brought up,that is...

I did research far enough to find that it is a legitimate psych dx. Still haven't discussed it with a psych pro and I repeat that my personal interests are far more engineer oriented than psychology.

I seem to be the only person in the 21st century who isn't affiliated with a diagnosed narcissist, but then. . . I don't believe in non-toxic humans, either. My environmental studies don't support that notion, though I see tragic evidence of Toxic People Landfills everywhere.

It's USED as an insult...but that's not why psychologists came up with the term. They came up with it in order to HELP people who were struggling...just like the terms heart disease or diabetes...or even ptsd. It was to help the doctors/therapists try to figure out which kinds of therapy gets the best positive results, talk to each other, get insurance reimbursement, and so on.

It's loosely based on symptoms...rather than "cause", much like "autism". Like autism, it will likely end up being more than one "thing".

Maybe just use the term "abusive", "selfish", or whatever direct description fits.

In my own personal head I add the word "suffering". He's "suffering from narcissism" and so on. VS "He's selfish, abusive and/or criminal." Truth is...that people with the condition DO suffer. Roots are generally seen to come from a combination of genetics, abuse, AND brain trauma (frontal brain damage makes it hard/impossible to understand what someone else is going through).

Those 3...explain why one child of abuse may grow up to be just fine, while another becomes abusive themselves.

Are there physical tests for psychology dx'es? Yes, physical evidence has been found, but I don't know of any that are solid enough for stream-lined tests. I earnestly believe there will be, one day, but for now, I believe science of psychology is about where medical science was before the microscope. Gotta start somewhere. . . Works in progress.

All the more reason to keep the dx'es case specific?

Yes, Functional MRI or fPET, can show abnormal processing paths for thoughts. and brain development in areas the handle emotions. This is usually used as an add on to observation and self report.

Yes, Functional MRI or fPET, can show abnormal processing paths for thoughts. and brain development in areas the handle emotions. This is usually used as an add for study on to observation and self report., that is used to diagnose.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130619101434.htm

MRI's have, indeed, found physical evidence, but the folks I still haven't met anybody who was diagnosed through MRI evidence, though it seems to have become a common test. I am sure they are out there. I just haven't met one.

Here is an article on the current difficulties of diagnosing through brain scan technology. Emphasis on "Current." Growth happens. Healing hopes spring eternal. Prayers by many names in progress.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/think-act-be/201605/using-brain-scans-diagnose-mental-disorders

It is a part of the whole, not instead of the whole of diagnosis.. Observation is needed since at fluctuating times a narcissist will have some empathy. But how they process it is different.And of course each person is different, so some may or may not improve with treatment. Some may only learn to mimic appropriate responses.
It's interesting stuff and I explore a lot of it as far as how signals are sent and which one hit dead ends. When if there is a dead end, which ones learn how to go around it by making new pathways.

My awareness of brain scans in the psychiatric diagnosis grew through schizophrenia. I have diagnosed schizophrenics in my family and in my support network. I still haven't met a diagnosed Narcissist that I am aware of. Hope you can forgive me for shifting to my life experience.

ALL of the diagnosed schizophrenics I know have had brain scans. MRI's, I think, though I am far from sure and even further from interested. My doctors trust me to know what a computer virus is. I trust them to know their business, as well. Not a one of the schizophrenic patients in my life turned up "positive" on the brain scan before receiving their dx. Zero percent.

Repeat: My interest in psychology is purely need based. I'd rather be a river boat captain.

A river flows on the easiest course gravity or force allows and a captain navigates, but has the responsibilities of safety of at least the boat. Otherwise he would just go swimming.

The functional brain scans used to detect neuronal pathway activity are relatively new to Psychology and Science as coordinated efforts.

A functional MRI?PET is an ongoing time lapse picture of electrical impulse/fluids that feed brain, and path of reactions. Often done with a script to see where the paths are intersecting areas of the brain that handle emotions , recognition, visual and auditory input. Kind of following the hot wires to see if there is a short or a jump to another path. A stable MRI, wouldn't show that.

So if I held up a picture of a cat and asked you to name it as a dog, there is a conflict in the recognition and speech areas, as well as you thinking I'm crazy for doing this. Since Psyche and Sci rarely believed in the other historically, now that we are able to use technology, in some areas supporting each other, they may have found common ground.
So I am sure there will be more to learn. Just as the days of zapping a general area to treat some afflictions have changed to more precision hit of the current form of ECT, from general shock treatment of the early 50's my dad had. More study combined is better than each study separate could do.

If course there is a lot more and a stable MRI will show, thickness of grey matter and white matter that do seem to affect our recognition of emotions and how we react to them. Also the size of the gap in the ventricles of the brain. Some of these measures are standardized but as you say all people are different, so a baseline and follow up may help. Very expensive.


Missing my typing program... Hugs J.

an example...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaqDtYEvb7w

This is in response to music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9EcsYTEcg8

Very educational. I am definitely glad it is being studied.

So far, I haven't much enjoyed my experiences as a lab rat, even when the honor didn't require a second mortgage on the family home, and I still find watersheds far more interesting for my own study purposes. When I took those assessment tests for college, my results generated a special advisory for med schools: DO NOT ADMIT.

Not everybody was meant to be a therapist. I'm okay being just a patient and trusting the folks who care enough to study it in gory detail. I can't even get myself to enjoy the Medical Parks where that research happens. The other kinds of parks need care, too.

OK< well, then, I guess NPD only exists if you can find it with a machine? Sorry to snark, but medicine uses *symptoms*, along with *signs*, because people with similar signs can manifest very different *symptoms* (or behaviors, as the case may be)....