Everyone has their own process. You are expressing what has worked for you in hopes of helping others and I am absolutely certain you did.

Often people go through a stage on their healing journey (and some stay in that place which is fine) where they are very angry about their abuse having been discounted. Their abuser denied it, their family discounted it. Even if they reported it to another as a child they may not have been believed or it was downplayed.

So when someone talks about forgiveness it can trigger that feeling of being discounted - even though that was not your message at all.

Add to that we have a very weird understanding of forgiveness feeling that it erases the past and gives the abusers more opportunities to hurt us or others. That's not what you were talking about either.

Forgiveness simply allows you to move on and it can look like whatever it looks like. As you said, it does not mean forgetting, nor does it mean putting yourself in harms way.

She is holding on to her anger like a hot coal - hurting herself but feeling justified in gripping it tighter and tighter. She feels she needs it even though it is hurting her. She felt you suggested she at least look at what she is doing and she's not ready yet.

But this has nothing to do with you or your message. It's her stuff. I'm sure that you did a lot of good and reached a lot of people so pat yourself on your back for both your courage and compassion.

As for the woman who was well-dressed? I was in a large class at a local church and those who were comfortable in their own skin, who dressed in clean clothes but had no need to make a show of how snazzy they could look, seemed to be friendly and down to earth. They'd wrestled their dragons and didn't have anything to prove.

The people with perfect make up, expensive jewelry, beautifully manicured nails and perfect eyebrows as well as pricey outfits were a car wreck! They had not dealt with their pain and felt the need to dress up the outside to compensate for their perceived short-comings on the inside.

I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone but I found it interesting and appropriate to mention here.

Muji- I think you are enlightened to realize that for you, holding a grudge burns you out.

That's not to be confused with giving further permission for someone to abuse you. If others fail to see that distinction, that's THEIR ignorance; NOT your weakness.

It would be like refusing a life jacket in the open sea because that person once cut you off in traffic...

Let her go. She's not worth it. Maybe she was placed there for you to take your healing to another level???

You are not an idiot. It is expected of victims to forgive their abusers. I know many victims and abusers, myself included on the victim spectrum.

You will see that the real intentions of those that attempt to get your forgiveness is deadly. That is what two female and one male stalker are trying to do right now. Not to mention the corrupt security workers and the corrupt cops that litter the streets that are in on it.

Criminals who abuse you in any way do not deserve your forgiveness, you may have been expected to do so by the pressure that society exerts.
I am facing criminals right now who blame me for not getting what they have been wanting all along.
I have been blamed for women not getting who they want even though it was their own dismal actions that any good guy would run far far away from them, hahahahah.

Predators will threaten you on one side and promise you the moon on the other, while trying to groom you and of course while trying to convince you that what you are getting and the goals that you are completing are everything they have always wished for and never got. That includes talent, looks, money, people they want and try to force themselves onto. All of that and they are fuming if they can not get to the people they tried to abuse and tried to get close to. These people have the guts to ask you for forgiveness, try to sneak into your life. No one that does not walk through my front door is in my life.

Leo, we have to be mindful of our own security and I am compelled to tell you the story of my life, perhaps some of you understand how criminals work.

I have been stalked extensively by males and females, guilty of rape, guilty of stalking, guilty of attempted murder (on me too).

These people will try anything to get to another victim. To ask for forgiveness is the criminal's entry into the victim's life.

To explain further, now really bluntly. These females and males will sleep around with people that are in close contact to me. They will send people to my work, they have corrupted police officers who are also harassing me.

When such people ask for forgiveness it is not their intention to create peace. They want to take revenge for not getting what they want or who they want.

I am witnessing this with old bowling ball people, furious their partner ran away, witnessing this with a young Schlampe, witnessing this with a stalking prostitute, witnessing it by listening to the people they associate with.

A victim can never be fooled by such attempts. Because in those cases it is not about forgiveness at all, it is about the attempt to force themselves into a victim's life.

i don't know muj. i guess i see it as everyone fights the demons in their own ways, and for some, maybe forgiveness is not necessary? as long as she is ok walking her road, then as a survivor, i wish her only good things.

me, it wasn't my path. isn't the majorities path it seems, but no matter how one finds empowerment, it's the end result that matters more than the means.

Pampas- seeking out forgiveness is one thing... So is an unsolicited apology. I see your point.

But I think Muji was talking about willingly deciding to let go of the grudge. That is the kind that makes you feel lighter.

I was always jealous of those "beautiful people" who look as if they never had a bad hair day. I just feel like a misfit. But just because someone decides to get decked up doesn't always mean they are a train wreck. (Though I totally get it and tend to agree with you.) Really secure people say, "I have nothing to prove" and is comfortable in their own skin, the way God made them.

Some just get dressed to go to church out of "respect." Though I bet they are also the ones swearing and cutting people off as soon as they get behind the wheel...

My biggest laugh- women who put on makeup to go to the gym!

Pampas, in my experience, abusers never apologize.
They don't see they did anything wrong.
And if anyone in my fam had apologized, I'd see it as manipulation b/c I'd know they weren't sincere.

Sincerity is sort of key issue there.

I agree with Lilly, Muji.... Anger is a secondary emotion... There's a root cause..

It sounds to me as though your talk triggered something within this young woman.... And that can be a good thing.... Food for thought...Perhaps the healing that you have done will encourage her to reach out for what she needs...

I'm sorry that you were hurt...I also think you might have helped this lady in a roundabout way.... Big hug for you and your generous spirit

I've heard several people lash out as she did when they aren't are the road to letting go and what a gift people give themselves when they can start on that road.... Not an easy road and I've found I often have to revisit it....x

Forgiveness isn't for the forgiven party's benefit, nor does it mean the relationship's restored so that the offender can do it again.

I suspect the woman who spoke up was operating from a belief that forgiveness means allowing the perpetrator to hurt you again.

Though I have not forgiven my dad. I let go a lot of the anger I felt, but I don't intend to forgive him. It still feels quite necessary to me to hate him.

Wow, Lilly, I rarely ever do that. Ha! Thanks.

By the way, good to see you on the previous page's thread, Mojopaw.