Physical & Emotional Abuse Support Group
Abuse is a general term for the treatment of someone that causes some kind of harm (to the abused person, to the abusers themselves, or to someone else) that is unlawful or wrongful. No one deserves abuse, period. Abuse can be emotional, physical, or sexual.
Perhaps some of the wise minds on here can be of assistance:
I told my wife I was feeling feral, and acutely aware of the feeling fo being backed into a corner.
She responded that she was sorry I felt like I was trapped in a corner.
I told her I appreciated her sympathy, but asked if she regretted any of the decisions she had made which helped me get here.
She said that fb didn't seem like a very good place for her answer, and that she'd prefer it face to face.
Now, I see her all the time, so I don't have issues with meeting with her, but something is pegging my internal alarms. The best I can figure out is a slight sense that she's dangling the possibility of an apology (which she really SUCKS at doing) and is putting it off. Any other thoughts?
Ok. She really sucks at apologies. Different exchange:
When you posted that quote (Marriage is a lot like owning a house - when a light bulb goes out, you don't buy a new house, you replace the lightbulb), I felt like my concerns didn't matter, that I was being judged for not working hard enough on the marriage, and that you and Mom were ganging up on me.
Her: Im sorry u felt like ur concerns dont matter and that mom and I are ganging up on u (Here we have the sympathetic I'm sorry,which accepts no responsibility)
Her: What else do u want me to say? I didnt mean to make u feel like your cocerns didnt matter. (And here we have a defense how she didn't actually do anything wrong.)
Me: Here's the problem I'm running into - and I apologize if this comes out awkward, I'm figuring it out as I go:
You haven't apologized.
I guess I'm looking for one.
Her: How have I not apologized?
Me: How have you apologized?
Her: "I'm sorry you felt like your concerns were minimized..."
Me: The problem is, there are two meanings of "I'm sorry" One that indicates responsibility and one that indicates sympathy. This is the one that indicates sympathy, because you accept no responsibility for your choice.
Long pause.
Her: I am sorry u found the post offense. I did not, I liked the underlying message of "dont give up just cause something went out".
Steeee-rike three.
I told my wife I was feeling feral, and acutely aware of the feeling fo being backed into a corner.
She responded that she was sorry I felt like I was trapped in a corner.
I told her I appreciated her sympathy, but asked if she regretted any of the decisions she had made which helped me get here.
She said that fb didn't seem like a very good place for her answer, and that she'd prefer it face to face.
Now, I see her all the time, so I don't have issues with meeting with her, but something is pegging my internal alarms. The best I can figure out is a slight sense that she's dangling the possibility of an apology (which she really SUCKS at doing) and is putting it off. Any other thoughts?
Ok. She really sucks at apologies. Different exchange:
When you posted that quote (Marriage is a lot like owning a house - when a light bulb goes out, you don't buy a new house, you replace the lightbulb), I felt like my concerns didn't matter, that I was being judged for not working hard enough on the marriage, and that you and Mom were ganging up on me.
Her: Im sorry u felt like ur concerns dont matter and that mom and I are ganging up on u (Here we have the sympathetic I'm sorry,which accepts no responsibility)
Her: What else do u want me to say? I didnt mean to make u feel like your cocerns didnt matter. (And here we have a defense how she didn't actually do anything wrong.)
Me: Here's the problem I'm running into - and I apologize if this comes out awkward, I'm figuring it out as I go:
You haven't apologized.
I guess I'm looking for one.
Her: How have I not apologized?
Me: How have you apologized?
Her: "I'm sorry you felt like your concerns were minimized..."
Me: The problem is, there are two meanings of "I'm sorry" One that indicates responsibility and one that indicates sympathy. This is the one that indicates sympathy, because you accept no responsibility for your choice.
Long pause.
Her: I am sorry u found the post offense. I did not, I liked the underlying message of "dont give up just cause something went out".
Steeee-rike three.
I would like to encourage the idea that communication may help us remain healthy in our relationships. So these past messages from other members sharing the idea that we can express ourselves better is very important to me. Through reading the book entitled, "Setting Boundaries in Relationships" By Judy H. Wright, I've learned a few basic skills that have helped me interact with a person who cannot readily understand my grievances.
I agree with Ilene. She is not taking responsibility for her actions and her apology was lacking. She said somethimg that hurt you and made you feel bad. It is horrible how they twist it around on us, leaving us even more hurt and less hurt than before.
Honestly, I have yet to hear a sincere apology for an abuser. I am sorry you are hurting. (((Hugs)))
But I also did not invalidate those feelings either. In fact I did not judge the validity of those feelings at all. What I did do is question the ownership of those feelings, because I know that when I take ownership of my feelings I am emotionally safer to myself and others.
In response to asking that valid question of ownership, I have been spoken to as if I am an abuser. I feel hurt. I have had words attributed to me as if I had said them, even though I didn't even think along those lines. Having my inner experience defined by another, being told what I think and getting spanked for what is not my thought, is a form of abuse as well. I feel lonely, fearful and ostracized.
I feel.
I feel resentful over being treated this way when I tried to help. I wonder if this happens to anyone who dares to see things differently or question the 'group think'. I wonder if ignoring people who present different perspectives is conducive to growth.
I did not give verbal abuse, but I did receive it. I was hurt by it. That has not been acknowledged. Just like at home, I receive the abuse, I say that it hurts...I bleed and somehow the person who delivered it to me ends up getting the band-aid.
I feel unwelcome.
My take is that fiber's point on ownership of feelings is valid and useful in a general sense. But one of the very real problems with abuse is that abusers do deliberately try to provoke feelings, and then step away from having to apologise by using the "I'm not responsible for your feelings" idea.
The other thing is that, while the post in question may well, in the context of many (most?) marriages, be perfectly innocuous and thus requiring or even requesting an apology would be a little out of line, that doesn't take into account the specific dynamics of THIS relationship. In circumstances where Bax and his wife have previously discussed his reaction to posts by her (and/or her mother) that appear to minimise the problems in the relationship and/or blame Bax for either the whole of the problems or for not making a big enough effort to fix them (or both), then that history changes everything. All of us have been guilty at one time or another of saying or doing something that inadvertently hurt someone else. And in those circumstances, we are not responsible for their feelings. But if we then say the same or similar again, and again, and again - well knowing that it causes hurt in the other person - then we ARE partially responsible for their feelings. And that appears to be the case here.
It's not a "one off, she may not have meant it the way he took it" situation. It's a part of a repeated pattern of her and her family publicly calling him out for running out on a marriage at the first sign of a bump in the road instead of making an effort to fix the minor problems - which is just dishonest and cruel.
My girlfriend does as you describe. If I ever once try and mention that she said or did something hurtful, her response is that she does not need to apologize because she is not responsible for my feelings. She may not quite say it like that (although she has), she will say "It's not my fault you were worried about me."
And I am 99.99% positive the reason she says things about validation of feelings and her not being responsible for my feelings is because she learned about that kind of stuff during therapy sessions. In other words, she has studied up on the methods other people should be using to communicate with her, and gets is all twisted up backwards. So if the therapist tells her that other people are not responsible for causing her negative feelings, she interprets that as she is not responsible for others feelings. And the latter is all she cares about.
In the case of bax's post, bax she is ignoring you by what she is saying, that's her theme, she constantly fails to see you!
This is making you turn to simply hold your hands up and spell it out for her, you do this and that's all she'll point out because you do indeed own your own actions and reactions, but, she also owns the ignorance she dishes out to you that interact with your reactions! She has responsibility here whether she uses the old "I'm not responsible for the way u feel" trick!
No your not dear, but you ARE responsible for your ignorance and refusal to acknowledge those feelings and THAT'S the difference!
She ignores, you waft your hand about more, the more u waft the more she ignores, the more she ignores the most you'll have to dance up and down to try to grab her acknowledgment, you more noise you make the harder she ignore you and on and on and on.....
And I bet that if you stopped trying to get her acknowledgment of your feelings, I bet she would provoke you, because this is her cycle as well and I don't think she will be ready to get off that roller coaster anytime soon!