Thank you everyone for your responses. They are very informative and well thought out and I appreciate the feedback.

I get emotional when it comes to my kids. Its good to have people to talk to.

I totally agree that older generations used spanking and flicking and ear pulling etc. to discipline and its hard to draw the line between abuse and tradition. Intent is important here.

At this point I think my major concern is whether or not he is escalating.

He was never physical before but the marriage is not going how he wants lately. This is a change in him. Its not something he would have done before so its freaking me out.

Yes, possible he lied about it, just to drive me crazy and possible he didnt lie and things are going on behind my back. I feel like I never know what to expect anymore.

We are trying to teach our son that hitting is not okay and it sets a very bad example in my opinion. Also I am not comfortable with my husband doing this because he has anger issues and (emotional) abuse tendencies and I think its a bad combo.

From what I can gather its not painful for the child at all, but humiliating, which is wrong in my opinion. I agree with what many here have said.

As for my daughter, when she let go of the cup I do not think she meant it to hit him in the face. I think she meant to remove herself from the power struggle and have him suffer whatever consequences came. I don't think she could have hung onto that cup forever.

For what its worth the two of them did calm down and work out a solution before hubby and I came home (they both cleaned up the dry cheerios and she found two different cups he liked more and he got to pick between them she wasn't giving up the one cup he wasn't allowed though). She fully admitted to exactly what happened even though she knew she could get in trouble. The child does get paid for babysitting.

I suspect DH lied about her hitting him to shift blame for what he was doing.

Make no mistake I will be keeping in close contact with my son, and watching to keep it from happening. I prolly will get a nanny-cam if I have to.

Yes I made it very clear to my husband he is not to do it anymore and I brought up the fact that my son has anger and hitting issues already.
**Husband did agree not to do it anymore but Im still keeping my eye on it.

My son is the youngest. We have worked with him in therapy already but I am going to send him to a new therapist who specializes in abuse.

I like the nannycam idea in theory. Don't tell your husband. Use it for data collection against him... Still, unless you get one for every room and then check the tape every day... Now that I think about it, that's just a false sense of safety.

Read up on abuser behavior. He's escalating because everyone adapted and he's got to take it to the next level. They get away with things because they can. Everyone gets complacent so he needs to ramp it up to gain more control.

You're excusing the hit b/c you feel it doesn't hurt. Doesn't matter. Besides, I think that's a questionable statement. It's sure not a hug, now, is it.

Your daughter was clever with the cup, using physics. She probably didn't think it through. Still, she used a PHYSICAL tool to solve the issue. She's learning from your H.

If your son's been in therapy already, that means he's been damaged. I bet a LOT more has gone on that you know about.

I'm feeling very worried for your situation.

One time when I was
a teenager, crossing
a public street with my
mother, my aunt and
her daughter, my
mother didn't like when
I told the truth about
something she didn't
agree with ---- and
she slapped me.

The slap was a
momentary sting.
The pain was there
and gone in a minute
or two.

The pain of being
slapped in public
and in the presence
of my aunt and my
cousin twitst my
gut as I write this
today, with forty-five
years between that
truth-telling and this
moment.

My mother is gone now,
nineteen years. I've
forgiven her, her lifetime
of abuses ----- emotional
and physical.

I even lied to her, when
she was very old and
asked me, in all sincerity ----
if she'd been a good mother.
(I said, "I came out okay,
didn't I.")

She fed me, clothed me,
put a roof over my head
and paid for my education.
On those points, she was
a good parent.

But she was my first abuser.
I can forgive, but I will
never forget.

The one and only time
that my ex hit me physically,
it didn't hurt physically.
There probably wasn't
even a bruise.

After seven years of alimony,
I can now forgive. He, literally,
paid for his abuse.

But I cannot forget.

Humilation and betrayal
of love and trust
don't have to leave
physical bruises or
cause physical pain.

That's my perspective,
having lived the life
of a survivor.

You said, "From what I can gather its not painful for the child at all, but humiliating, which is wrong in my opinion. I agree with what many here have said."

I'm not exactly sure what the 'its not painful' refers to. But I want to address this statement as it applies to emotional as well as physical abuse, including, but not limited to older generations spanking, etc., as well as everything your DH is doing.

And, I must respectfully disagree. It is all painful to a child. Its all painful to adults, too. It has a devastating effect on a child because children are growing and nothing is fully formed or matured in a child. Even the brain is still maturing well into a person's 20s.

Also, we are all individuals and our tolerances for pain AND how we perceive what is happening to us is different. Therefore, I don't believe one can say it is not painful, because it is to at least some. And some are more stoic than others, but that doesn't remove the pain. Pain can occur in more ways than we can possibly imagine. It can also be 'stuffed' into the subconscious to re-emerge later in life. And all the time it is 'stuffed' its eating away at our insides. And that can cause not just emotional, but also physical dis-ease.

In addition, studies have shown that children just witnessing abuse (either physical or emotional or both) causes brain damage. It can cause the hippocampus to shrink as much as 20%. Children from abusive environments (whether the abuse was directed at them or not), often suffer from PTSD and other disorders. So, IMHO, it is painful.

Rather than retype all the information, here is a link to a post I wrote a while back about how abuse (even just witnessing emotional abuse), affects (especially) the brain. (The info starts w/the 5th paragraph from the top.)

http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Physical_Emotional_Abuse/forum/19141057-possible-trigger-why-dont-dv

Please know it IS painful for children, just as it's painful for adults, but I think its worse for kids because they have NO CHOICE and NO POWER with adults.

I cannot think of anything more painful than when a child is abused by the very person who is supposed to protect him/her.

You said that "We are trying to teach our son that hitting is not okay and it sets a very bad example in my opinion. " I agree with that. Human beings, regardless of age, and maybe even more so with kids, will believe and trust actions over words when they don't match.

And not only that, but your daughter is learning that its ok to be abused and to abuse. Just by living in a toxic abusive environment. In the end, it will not matter what we try to teach our children. They will learn what they live and live what they learn. And if words don't match actions, the actions are what will be learned. And they can grow up feeling lost, abandoned & confused. Sadly, even when one parent does everything w/in his/her power to counteract the abuse.

I meant not physically painful. And even that was just a guess.

The point here being that, whether it caused him physical pain or not, it caused emotional or even if it was meant to cause emotional pain, thats all I need to know, its wrong in my opinion.

I am doing everything I can to protect my child physically and emotionally. I feel thats what a mother should do.

Being in therapy does not make a person damaged, it makes them human.

Sometimes DH does stand for DickHead.

The only thing I feel I need to add as a survivor of physical, sexual and emotional abuse, is that the emotional abuse is not to be excused. Frankly for me the emotional abuse of my parents and ex husbands was worse than the physical abuse. I recovered from the physical wounds and bruises fairly quickly. Not so the the emotional abuse.

The emotional abuse almost consumed my soul, almost convinced me that I was good for nothing and not deserving of love. Starting with parents that stated and demonstrated that they did not want me and beat us and molested us.
I doubt that the kind of abuse I endured can be healed completely. With each bit of therapy I got better at avoiding abuse from others. It is part of my work everyday to treat myself better than my parents did in order not to pick another abuser or begin to abuse myself.
Do not discount or minimize the damage that humiliation and emotional abuse can do.

Hi Tangelo. Good for you for addressing the situation like you are. I would like to underscore what Scarclan said about how counseling is easier for an 8 year old than for an older child. Looking back, I wish I had gotten my son into counseling earlier. Growing up with a narc father and our emotionally abusive relationship affected him. In hindsight, all the things mytruecolors mentioned were true for my son. He had anxiety, he had anger. He was just what I thought at the time was quirky. I had no idea how much he was affected. He almost died of alcohol intoxication a few times, beginning at age 15. He still struggles with his feelings and with depression, anger etc now at age 18, but now that my stbx has left, it is just me and my son. He is doing way better now, but really, I had insisted my stbx stop spanking my son when he was maybe 3 years old, and he did, but the environment took its toll. Counseling as early as possible is very good advice! ((hugs))

To add...

I have forgiven my father for the abuse, but I'm still not able to forgive my mother for allowing it to happen. She still maintains she was a good mom. Erm... not if you know your husband is harming (physically or otherwise) your child and you allow it to continue.

Just putting that out there...