Thank you for this post. You sound like a rational and reasonable person. And I was wondering if I could get your opinion on something. It's about what you talk about here. It's kind of bugging me to no end. Can I message you in private?

Wholeheartedly agree rani, thank you for your post xx

If you accept these disputes happen in the formin/normin/stormin stages of group dynamics, then why not also accept people want to express their concerns?

I read the threads on both forums that you are refering to, and see problems on both threads, as well as, what sounds like some really honest feelings, some heartfelt concerns, and frankly, both sides genuinely caring about survivors other than themselves.

I think it is possible neither side are the evil-doers that is being suggested they are, but that they are good decent people that are sensitive to power dynamics after having been in relationships where someone was abusing the power dynamics.

Understandable.

I don't see it as childish at all. I see it as people with genuine feelings that are coloured by their past experiences.

But if you can ignore the name calling, you can hear very clear messages from everyone, that don't seem all that bad, they seem...human.

Am I alone in that?

JoyRide,

I saw absolutely nothing wrong with the voicing of concerns. I do not see anyone as "evildoers". The truth is, I am one of the "Old Timers" and many of the people I've considered as friends here for a long time were involved (even if by proxy) on both sides.

I have a full understanding that we have all been through hell and have our own issues we are dealing with. I also understand that sometimes we say or post something that just doesn't come out how we meant it.

The truth is, when I made the comparison with my teens, it was because my daughter is a sexual abuse survivor, my son is a teen growing up without a dad and two emotionally labile females. There is many times anger and tension in my house that would be hard to cut with a knife. And I have never seen my children, even with each other, resort to name calling and accusations to point out their concerns.

It is my opinion that the name calling that you mention, the innuendos and accusations that I saw were not appropriate (and I saw the posts before they were removed - not any cut and pasted version).

I am also very human myself. In case anyone has missed this along the way, shortly after her abuse disclosure, I told my daughter to be quiet in the car. She looked at me and said, "I never want want to be quiet again. I was quiet way too long". You cannot imagine her face and the resolve in the voice of a girl barely 10. It really was the most powerful moment of my life. I would never ask anyone to be quiet, not to voice concerns or point out that they are feeling abused or any other feelings. That being said, I've also taught my daughter (and son) the importance of also respecting others, as they have their own issues to bear and feelings that can be hurt.

I have taught my children to express themselves freely - more than what most people believe children should. This means they can say, "mom, this teacher sux, I can't stand her and she can't teach". This means it's also not acceptable to me for them to post on Facebook, "that teacher is a lesbian whore who faked her diploma"

I'm sorry to use my kids as an example so much (my human side - as they are pretty much my life). I just think that you can express yourself, your concerns and what you are feeling without pages and pages of name calling etc.

It is nothing personal to anyone on any of the groups I am a member of, it is just my feelings and my opinion.

I will not say all I was going to as Rani has said it better that I could have.

These posts reminded me of the medival witch drownings...

A guy has a bad experience with a witch. He had been suspicious of all women since. He sees a woman in the village he is supicious of. He casts aspersion. It becomes fact. The woman is drowned without a trial. The trial is that if she doesn't die she is a witch. Aspersions from a man with tainted judgement = death to the woman.

On reading the thread I was reminded of a pscyhopathic smear campaign. I found it really hard to believe victims of abuse could group together and bully a member who has been bullied in her life in the the past.

I thougtht 1 up to the predator 1 down to the victims. :(

I thrive on the useful info here provided by all members. I do not feel threatened by it. Then I have no hidden agenda.

Well, OK, lets look at the name calling. Both sides are using words we're all so familiar with right? Even in this thread. "Psychopathic smear campaign", "predator and victim".

Using those particular words tells me an awful lot about the people using them, especially on these forums. Something I have a lot of compassion for. I'm certain we all do, don't we?

We've been hurt by people who presented themselves as other than they actually were. We were blindsided, deceived, conned, manipulated, coerced. For someone like me, a self-made woman with loads of esteem, freedom, accomplishment and independence, that was a very frightening experience to come to terms with how even *I* not only got fooled, but stayed in the game for so long I became a different person that took years to recover from.

It's been a long time I've being sensitive and distrustful, and I don't apologize for that. I don't have any need to shake a finger at anyone involved because it seems easy to recognize.

In other words, the comparisons both sides are making are sword and shield...for protection.

Their concerns I recognize too. Who is real? are their intentions good or not? let's protect each other? lets give each other support against them.

Aren't we all finding ourselves, for some time in our recovery anyway, asking ourselves the same questions about the people in our lives? friends? dates? the guy flirting with us at the grocery store?

I mean, sure, we CAN shake our fingers at one another, and make comparisons to children who behave better, but I'm not sure that will help diffuse the situation and create mutual understanding, as much as, maybe trying hard to hear what is being said behind the words.

Both sides are concerned, and feeling defensive. Both sides love their forums and want newbies to feel helped and supported. And now, both sides are feeling triggered and bristly and armoured up.

When really, maybe, it's just part of the stormin stage of a group, and we could actually learn something more about one another...if we aren't too afraid or too offended to just listen.

Or am I being too Pollyannish?

JoyRide

I am in full agreement that everyone's previous issues played into how this situation unfolded.

As far as me using my well-behaved kids (that part brought a big smile to my face - as I've spent a few Saturday mornings driving to Saturday detention), everyone who knows me can tell you how much my kids are the constant thread of my life and they come up in many, many of posts. Sometimes because the perspective of kids in general is so overwhelmingly real and on target, sometimes because they have been victims themselves, and sometimes because we have just worked out so many things together as a family that I feel it relates in some way to what is being said or to what I am trying to say. It is the reason I explained a little bit about my daughter and son's situation - so everyone would have a bit more understanding of where I am coming from.

I also understand that we have been hurt by people who were not who they said they were and we are all on guard against this. I have ran into this with a different member on a board. I did voice my concern privately to one of my friends. We discussed it. Fortunately, this person did not receive what she was after on that group and moved on pretty quickly without too much conflict arising.

Yes, I think all of us were feeling triggered in some way by this issue and the resulting posts. When I first came to DS, there were a few who I saw as my first support/mentors. While I was just in the process of leaving the ex, a conflict came up, feelings were hurt and some of these members that were my lifeline felt the need to move on. The thing is, right after that the one who started the conflict was like oh, I'm sorry, this is not for me and I'm gone.

It was terribly difficult for me at that time. Yes, this current conflict triggered that time for me. Still, I didn't call anyone names or say they're fake or narcs or anything else. I did state my opinion that my kids do better at working out issues without such things. This is true. My kids often communicate and work out issues in their lives better than I do!!

The truth is, I have many of my own personal feelings and opinions about several of the different people involved. I have not stated them on any of my posts because I don't feel it the appropriate place to do so. If I feel the need to do so, I will contact those people directly and let them know personally my feelings and thoughts.

And BTW, I appreciate Pollyannish. Although I don't spend as much time on this group anymore, I do browse through at times. I've always appreciated your posts and that is the vibe I get from you. I think that is a good thing.

Hi Raniagal,

I just wanted to say that I was so impressed with the direct and articulate way your daughter said "I don't want to ever be quiet again. Ive been quiet too long." Especially at 10. Sounds like you've done well. :) hugs from Karen

JoyRide, well said.