I can't advise on this as the man I was married to didn't really contribute so much financially, nor did my following relationship after my divorce. I have actually done better financially without men in my life, but those are just my cases and a lot of budgeting and saving up for about 5 years. I am by no means rich, just better off than I was. Of course in my case, I had to leave the house, he got the money for it and I split the account even. I only took what I came into the marriage with. The divorce was not contested, he didn't even show and I basically started over, paying rent on a new place.
Then when the next relationship didn't work out 7 yrs later, that Guy moved his woman in, me out, they decided what I would get, loaded it in a horse trailer and I moved again.
Found out he is divorced only after 2 yrs of marriage to the woman he replaced me with...I feel real bad...NOT.
Anyway..guess I am saying, we are more resilant than we give ourselves credit for. At one time, I was having to work at a rat breeder facility just to be able to live upstairs. Have the scar on my hand to tell me how far I have come.
Do I worry about day to day expenses, healthcare, and the future? Hell yeah. But, at least I know I am not going to let another person throw my ass in the street again. I hope it all works out whatever you decide to do. Big hugs.

Hey sugarcakes..check out the tube video that Ilene posted. Dude made me feel better and we all know I am a trainwreck. Hugs.

Eeeek! No fun at all. I'm so sorry to hear you are going through that. I noticed a couple of things. First, you said you had your "guard up" around him. What causes that reaction? And you said something about leaving a circle of scorched earth if you lose your house.

I'm concerned about your anger. Specifically that your anger may not have an appropriate outlet. What did your therapist say when you talked about all of the rage and how to break the cycle?

Vernacular:
I am by no means an expert and if anything today I feel like I am just completely broken. But I wanted to offer some words of encouragement based on my experience:
I walked away from all of it to gain MY space and MY piece of mind.
He walked away with all of my 401 K which I gave him to start his business.
I gave up my rights to his pension.
I was fortunate to be working but had to, and still am, clawing my out of financial hell.
I refinanced the house in my name only to have to walk away and claim bankruptcy.
And I promise you that TO ME, it is all worth the knowledge that he holds NOTHING over me, that we do not manage ANYTHING together, and that I owe him nothing.We are only tied by our children, which is my biggest challenge.
I am dealing with so much anger right now that I am seriously considering buying a heavy bag and I am going back to therapy.
Sometimes emotional freedom wins over financial security. But you have to be the one to decide what's best for you. Whatever you decide, you will be able to overcome what is in front of you. Hugs.

the reason i have my guard up dovetails nicely with my anger, so that's convenient.

my ex does a lot of gaslighting and deflecting and never taking responsibility for anything and in these and other ways beat all the love and respect i had for him right out of me. he also tried to talk me into depression i didn't have and abandoned me emotionally during some really low points in my life. so now that i have recognized his arsenal of weaponry against me the rage when he busts one out overtakes me. blinds me. he used it to try and break me, and provoked me into panic attacks and sickness before i realized what he was doing and cut off from him as much as i could. but i have this raging hornets nest i walk around carrying, and every once in a while he jumps out and hits it with a stick, so i have to be on my guard all the time. it doesn't take a lot of effort on his part to do a lot of damage to me. i wish that wasn't the way it is, but it is right now.

therapy is just another thing i'm mad about. i was a big believer in therapy and even spent time as a therapist. and then i watched my ex manipulate 2 therapists and use them against me. and then i realized i spent so much time thinking and processing and channelling and wondering and postulating and hypothesizing that i forgot to realize i just plain wasn't happy, he just plain was an asshole. i felt duped by therapy. i felt like it provided misdirection in the card trick that was my marriage. so despite advice from well wishers, i just could not bring myself to go to yet another therapist that was going to let me down. i know that's not rational, i would rail against someone else who said that in a post. but thats how it feels, and have i mentioned how angry i am? another crappy therapist dropping the ball would be a catastrophe. i don't know any other word for it.

so that's probably what i'm doing here, i don't have any other options. but it's too much to channel while i'm standing in one spot and i can't figure out how to move forward. so i keep spinning myself deeper into the ground. and, surprise! that pisses me off, too.

Vernacular, here's a huge hug. I wish I could offer words of wisdom and advice that would kick ass, but I'm tapped out of asskicking advice right now. Just know that whatever you choose make it about YOUR choices, don't let the bastard have any more. Hugs and prayers coming your way :-)

freein see that's what i'm talking about! it would be worth it, honestly, to have nothing connected with him at all, but i'm so sorry about everything you went through..what a bastard! but now you're uma-thurman-in-kill-billtotally righteous!

but the scary piece is that i really can't evaluate the situation honestly wearing these anger glasses. if i divorce him because i want him to be sure i hate him, well that's a stupid reason to rush with open arms toward bankruptcy. i feel this pressure to do it, do it now! and yet can't see what's really in my best interests. i think financial horrors, nightmarish though they may be, are better then wandering around in a dark room trying to find things to throw at him. its disconcerting to not be able to have a clear moment and terrifying being unclear.

i don't know how to get any relief and i just really want freakin relief for one minute.

Vern
You know what to do
Sometimes we try to talk ourselves out of it
Close your eyes
Breathe
Let your intuition lead you and don't let your head talk you out of it
Let go and let higher powers intervene
You've got this
You just need a little perspective
Let yourself have it

you are so right freein. dammit you are so right. i need to keep walking away and filing legal documents until one morning i wake up and i'm free.

thank you all so much, you are lifesavers. the candy kind.

I can so relate to this Vern. BTDT - the only difference is I didn't have kids at home when I decided to leave. (nope, I made them go thru living hell - the one thing I still regret.) I left complete financial security (which I had built for us) for financial uncertainty. He and my atty screwed me over not once but twice financially. I ended up moving from the beautiful 3000 sq ft home I designed in a peaceful setting to a 1000 sq ft rental house in a town where I knew no one.

Over the years I watched him manipulate 5 different therapists, not counting therapists at TWO different rehab places! One actually had the nerve to blame me for his alcoholism! I'm still not sure how I survived that! I carried that anger w/me for over a decade!

I've have some pretty unbelievably crappy therapists as well. All one guy wanted to do was teach me how men communicate, and that was AFTER the divorce. One thought I was in love w/him (if you saw the little twerp you'd go eeeewwwwwwww and throw up in your mouth). One slept thru the first & only session w/him. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

But I never gave up on myself. It took me a long time to find my current therapist & I am so grateful for her. But I get what you're saying so I won't say those words. ;-)

What I will suggest is something you probably already know. Do something to move the anger that's covering up all the other emotions like hurt & sadness. Get a swim noodle and beat the ever livin crap out of a couple of a couple of pillows. Cuz you know if you don't release those emotions, you're just gonna feel worse and worse and it's gonna get harder and harder to deal w/him.

As far as the legal stuff, here's what I learned the hard way...

Many atty's offer free consults. I would check w/a couple of attys and see what your state's laws are re legal separation. Also check to see if there are ways that the child & spousal support can be automatically deposited from his work so he can't just stop payment whenever he feels like it. Then find the biggest most aggressive shark atty you can afford. Ask around. Call the court house and ask the women who work there who they would pick.

Make sure you get everything to do w/finances and assets listed in the property settlement. Also make sure your living arrangements are clearly spelled out so he can't come back later and try to change it w/o going back to court. You wanna make it as hard as you can for him.

The best advice I rec'd AFTER it was too late, was see a CPA or financial adviser before doing the property settlement. They can look at your assets and make recommendations as to how they should be divided to your best benefit. For example, lets say you have equal amts of liquid cash and stocks. It's important to make sure you get at least half of the liquid cash. If you end up w/more stocks than cash. the you're stuck having to pay all of the taxes when regardless of who actually paid for the stocks in the first place.

The best thing is NC, but since you can't do that because of your son, could you limit it to only emails between visits?

And of course, as Ilene always says, take good care of you. Come up with a self-care plan that works for you, doing things that nurture relax you.

I'm 8 yrs out and have less money, but enough; less house, but meh, enough; less material stuff but I have what I need. What what I do have is peace, joy, freedom to live my life the way I want, and freedom to finally be me. I'm healing my ptsd, still working on me, but I am happier than I have ever been and I am free. There is hope. Just keep your eye on the prize.

Sending you positive healing filled hugs...

oh my gosh MTC sometimes i feel like the angriest angry whose ever angered an anger.but YOUyou have stared the beast in the eyes and lived to tell the tale! you are such an inspiration, and whatever pill you take that keeps you positive give me some! i mean, twerpy love therapist? are you kidding me?

thank you for the solid practical advice, that is a piece which overwhelms me and i hadn't thought of most of them. in fact i have to print it out and digest it in tiny, delicious, chocolate covered pieces.

thank you so much for your support

Some really great advice already. I mostly just wanted to add understanding and support. For me, the issues were different - the main issue I had was protecting my son. But for a long time I really couldn't work out whether I wanted to protect my son or whether I was being "one of THOSE women" who uses her child as a weapon. I kept insisting on supervised visitation, I had my lawyer involved in every communication I had with him, it was horrible. And he, of course, made sure I "knew" every step of the way that all I was doing was punishing my son. And I hated him SO much for punishing my son. And I hated him more for my self-doubt about whether it really WAS me punishing my son. And so it went, round and round in circles on a clownish merry-go-round of hate and fear.

And so I second-guessed myself at every step. I questioned my motives CONSTANTLY. But I sat with it, I talked to friends. I can't say much about therapy because I am one of the lucky ones - the first one I phoned turned out to be a total freaking life saver. I can't even remember much of what she said, because she was so damn good at leading ME to figure things out, more by asking questions than by telling me stuff (though there was a bit of both, of course, but the stuff that really stuck was the stuff she had me figure out for myself, by her leading questions).

The other thing I did was just really examine myself. Even through my anger, I knew deep down that I was not punishing him. Even in my hate, I realised I never REALLY wanted to punish him. Sure, I did a very nice line in revenge fantasies for a while. I had (still have) a couple of friends, we lived (still do lol) in 3 different countries, but we would have these insane 3 way email conversations where we would come up with and refine the revenge strategies. Some of them were gold. But even in doing that, I knew I didn't want revenge, I wanted freedom and safety. Examine yourself - you know whether what you want from divorce is punishment and revenge, or freedom and closure.

And who knows, if you do it smart, you may not lose out financially as badly as you think (I ended up winning my son, big time - he just turned 6 hasn't seen his "father" in more than 4 years, has little to no recollection of him and very VERY little interest in him). But even if you do, if what you are after is freedom and for "it" (the marriage, the tie, the whole freakin nightmare) to end, then financial issues are easier to recover from than further soul-destroying abuse.

Finally, whilst I am a bit of a fan of a beating a pillow, screaming at a rock type of venting for anger, I also really do love a different approach, one of accepting and nurturing your anger. For that concept to make sense, this si the article that explained it best to me:
http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1756

I have often found that the unwanted emotions that I accept are released MUCH more quickly than those I fight against.

Wow ... so much for not having much to say. Hehehe, sorry for the essay - take what makes sense, dump the rest. :-)

wow livn how did you not have a breakdown? i was nervous just reading your post! how awful, to have to be so vigilant and still fight that voice in the back of your head saying "you're crazy!" and when it's your child, oh my god there is nothing that cuts to the bone as quick as watching them mess with your kid.

my ex thought visitation meant showing up at the house at 6:30 in the morning and sitting on the couch all day having "quality time" with my son and when i informed him he had to go OUT (since i invented divorce, and all the rules that go with it) he was pissy and stomped all over the house getting ready to go to the park. then they came home 11 seconds later with him yelling about some fabricated reason why it was the 3 year olds fault they had to come back. yelling at this little kid, making him feel at fault, i wanted to tear my ex's arms off.

(after he left my son and i ate ice cream and watched monsters inc.)

i want to be free of him. more than anything else i want to be so far away his bullshit landslide won't catch me, and he'll only see my hand out the door as we pass my son back and forth. i'm actually taking steps to pull back on the amount of time they're spending together, it makes me vomit to think my beautiful boy would emulate this jackass in any way. i have to do it strategically, secretly and stealthily, which is not who i am. that normally would make me mad, but now i just see it as smart.

thank you so muchi will read the link now.you all have done so much to help me, i can't tell you.

Vern, MTC's post is spot on. I walked away from everything from an abuser who financially took everything. Now, I live on a small income in a weird hippie rental out in the southwest desert with my dog. I don't have any dependent children. Life is OK, not wonderful but getting better every day. Your anger will go away sometime. My therapist said it was good to hold on to it to remind myself why I don't want to go back. Sending you peace.