I will ad that in our conversation on the phone this morning, my husband said "there are people who have known me less time that have more faith in me than you do." Ummmmmmm.....maybe because they haven't been lied to and manipulated by you all these years?! :-O

Hi Ashley73 mama,

I just want to start by sharing with you that even if what your gut tells you is true (and I've learned that guts tend to not lie even if you think you're over-reacting) this is going to be a VERY draining, LONG process for all of you but especially you so figure out now while it's calm how to stay strong. You need to give yourself avenues to stay strong physically (i.e. eat, sleep & sunshine), mentally (i.e. journal what you see, research legal stuff), emotionally (i.e. SOMEONE you can confide in/get encouragement from even if it's just us, self esteem, being able to love your babies without feeling burdened) and spiritually (i.e. praying, church, nature sightings, music). When & if the truth comes to light, you HAVE to be able to act wisely and without extreme emotion involved. I'm not saying that it won't be difficult and you won't FEEL bad, but you need to do what is right and best for your whole family when/if circumstances change. My husband and I had to report our 15 year old, just-got-out-of-cancer-treatment, oldest son to both CPS and the police and that was more than emotional but we didn't let our emotions keep us from making the best choice for our whole family when we learned the truth. But it was gut-wrenching!

Now, to address your husband who I know from neither here nor there, I simply want to share a bit about my childhood. My father was verbally/spiritually/emotionally/physically abusive to myself and my mother and actually not only tried to brain wash my siblings but succeeded! To this day I'm the only child who remembers the monster he truly was/is. But, aside from the tremendous fear I had of him, the biggest problem I had was that I alone (age 12-16) was the only one of our family who looked for help. I was too afraid to call 911 because my mom had told me stories about my dad going to jail and destroying the family but I did share what was happening at home to anyone and everyone else that I could. With the exception of 1 dear mama-friend who just didn't quite get how bad it was, EVERYONE else thought I was lying, fabricating stories or just being creative me! Even my own extended family wouldn't listen to me! They would remark back "but we've never seen him be like that, are you sure?" or "he's such a loving dad, he couldn't hurt you" or "Sweety, I think you're over-exaggerating!" My OWN FAMILY! So, I gave up being so young and naive and slipped into a horrible depression. Because you see, they were right...we were so afraid of him in public (because he would threaten us that if we didn't behave we'd pay for it later and he ALWAYS made good on his promise) that we showed everyone the perfect, happy family and almost started believing it ourselves because he was SO NICE to us in front of others! We got spoiled, we smiled, we got hugs, we got showed off as wonderful, adorable children, we wore the best clothes, ate the yummiest food...and then we got home and the yelling began even before we had arrived there. What I'm trying to get at, and it's a psychological proven trait, is that abusers have cycles. Even when my dad would almost kill my mom, he'd "be good" for a while and we thought life went back to normal...but it hadn't! He was just going through a cycle. Look up "cycle of abuse" on google and you'll see what I'm saying. You may very well be in the middle of a "calm" period if your husband truly is an abuser. And if he has those tendencies, after the calm is over, he'll do it again to your children. The good thing is YOU BELIEVE your children even if they're too afraid to believe it themselves!

I can't comment as to what I'd do if it was my husband but I do know I'd do whatever was in my power to make sure it wouldn't happen again, and you've done your best at that.

Two things I wanted to share with you:
1) Our detective said that my daughter was one of the most distraught children he's ever met. That being said, she has PTSD and it's not BECAUSE we talk that she's struggling...it's because of the horrifying memories that are tearing her up inside! I was told by him that I was allowed to ask the question words/about emotions without it influencing their forensic interviews because ,my children protested profusely to the point of more anxiety when we told them we had to stop talking until after those interviews! So, instead, we just documented everything they said only asking questions like "Who", "What", "Where", "How", "When" (which is tricky but we'd focus on things like what were you wearing, the weather, holidays nearby, etc., not specific dates) and to be totally honest, if I hadn't gently poked into my 4 year old's reactions to every day life, we'd not know he had been abused! So, my suggestion is that the next time your daughter does something with her privates just gently ask her "honey, where'd you learn that from?" It might lead you to more information or she may just look at you or lie so you can try a different question. "Who taught you that?" "How'd you know to do that?" ""What game are you playing?" "When did this happen last?" "How do you feel when you do that?" My 4 year old would say "nothing" "nobody" "nope" for the longest time but he also wouldn't look me in the eyes. When he finally started looking me in the eyes, he told the truth and his feelings of "sad, angry, disgusted" stayed pretty consistent. My 9 year old daughter started by saying all the bad stuff "came from my inappropriate brain" when really she had learned it and had it happen to her by a predator child. So, my point is, listen for clues, follow up on everything with your children with the knowledge that if you're NOT pushy and it's just a "normal" conversation they won't be more traumatized then they would be if it happened again. Document, document, document though! I turned over 150 pages of documented dreams, disclosures, incidents that my 3 victimized children told me over a 6 month period. The really hard stuff came out MONTHS after the first disclosure.

2) " I will ad that in our conversation on the phone this morning, my husband said "there are people who have known me less time that have more faith in me than you do." "
This is a classic line that even my own father, who was openly abusive to us in front of my mom and visa versa, told us! He'd say "other people can't be wrong because there's so many of them saying the same thing!" Well, they were wrong. My daughter's abuser constantly told her to "trust me" before he'd sexually/physically hurt her but he'd still hurt her. Trust and faith are earned not given. Don't feel guilty. Time is the only proof you will have to show that your husband is innocent and if he's not, it's your best ally.

Stay STRONG. Be VIGILANT. Fight for your precious CHILDREN. May God keep His hand of protection on your family during this intensely difficult time. <3

Therapy for children isn't like it is for adults. They don't sit there and ask about feelings and emotions or what happened, etc. The children will lead the sessions with gentle encouragement from the therapist. It sounds like your son is disclosing in the way he knows how, which is to talk about ninjas and what not. Don't take your daughter's behavior as normal. I say this because my daughter wasn't doing anything extreme and everything sign she was showing were things that could be normal for her age. It wasn't until after the fact that I realized that she was acting out in her own way. My stepson was the perp and he would come stay every other weekend. My daughter would go into his room and watch him play xbox. He groomed her by bribing her with playing with him on the xbox. It was easy for him to keep her quiet because he had every opportunity to threaten her while he was there. Never in my wildest dreams would I think I needed to be careful letting my daughter be alone in her brother's room. He showed no interest in girls or sex or anything. She started pulling down her pants and mooning people. She would close her legs tight when I washed her and say it tickled. She would also play with herself in the bath sometimes but that can be normal behavior when kids are discovering their bodies and what feels good. Also, my stepson didn't really interact with my kids a lot when he was at our house. When he was around 11 1/2 he started letting her watch him play video games. I thought maybe he was maturing a little and just being a little more interactive with her. Wrong! That attention he was showing her was grooming behavior and it sound like your husband is doing the same thing. He's being extra nice so the children don't disclose and so that you don't suspect. I would never accept a 3 year old saying someone licked their butt and touched it with a stick as being something that could be misunderstood. He doesn't know what the means and he would have no way of knowing that is something a person would do. I know you already know the things I'm saying, I'm saying it because I don't want you to feel crazy. We all know what you are experiencing and it is very difficult. Our emotions are so out of control and we begin to question everything and everyone. I can't imagine having to continue to live with him and act "normal". You need support in anyway you can get it. I hope you have some family who can give you some time off because you can't keep going on a 24/7 watch.

WarriorMomX5, you are already earning your stripes as a source of wisdom and support here. Thank you. My daughter's situation was so very different from that of most here, but your explanation of cycles explains so much about why her abuser's kids have stayed apparently silent about how they were abused, as well as why her abuser's wife stayed with him. I can totally see him convincing everyone that he was an awesome father and wife.....

I mean husband! :D

I'm only 1/2way through reading your post, and I'm sending you hugs bigtime. Will finish reading now <3

The most frustrating thing for me was all the advice I got from police and counselors to not talk to my kids. I also had advice like pretend everything is normal around my step dad until the investigation is done. The best thing I did was to do what I felt was best for my daughter first before everyone else's agenda. The police want a good case ... Counselors have thier ideas of handling trauma but honestly I didn't sit right with me not talking part. I get that I shouldn't plant ideas but I did give my kids lots of opportunities to share and I asked direct questions as I felt led. I made time in the evenings for the kids to individually talk with me I assured them that I was there for them. The other thing I did was educate my kids every month or so I would get a new book on good touch bad touch and development not only did I feel this was helpful for the kids it helped me find language appropriate to my kids young ages. One that I got from here was that sometimes people have touching problems .... Most people know to follow the rules and use good touches but there are some who have touching problems and give bad touches. Its always important to tell no matter who it is or even if they tell you not to. If you tell,than they get to learn how to not give bad touches. The idea is you don't want them afraid and if you say they are sick or some other way of describing a perp they may think of like having a cold etc. Young children just have a tough time grasping what it is. I read the story of me series that explains what our bodies are for and even talks about sex but in an age appropriate way. With my daughter we read ahead because of the exposure but it still was I think 5-7 etc. The idea here being to explane the good purpose of our bodies and how they are made and what is normal then gives a basis for saying what isn't. Perhaps having these books around will be a warning for your husband in that if you do do something they now know what to do and who to tell. I read healing days, the therapist read my daughter a book about a seal or sea lion that was hurt by an uncle. There was a good one written by a kid who was abused I think called please tell. There are the yell and tell books. Anyway children's books are a great resource for very young children.

I have not been in your situation as we did not live with the perpetrator, however, I don't think I would stay living with that person if it was the case. Maybe your kids don't want to cause trouble at home? My daughter also did not want to talk at first and that was frustrating. I didn't want to keep talking to her about it because I wanted there to be no question that her story was her own and not put into her head. What I did was tell her that if something happened, it was not okay for that to happen and that we needed to talk to someone about it. She eventually did talk, but I think she was so fearful that she needed reassurance that it was going to be okay.

I've been in your situation. I know what you're describing. It is sickening. It is abusive for you to know n watch him grooming your children. I get it.
For my husband 2 weeks was always his max. Then it was back to same old same old.
He is who / what he is. He wishes n prays to God he can change... But unfortunately statistics are not on his side.
Keep the pressure on him. He will snap. Something will happen that allows you to move on. Use this time to strengthen yourself and prepare for the battle when it presents itself.

But!!!
Always lead with what your mama brain tells you to do first and second to that is strategy for the courtroom.
This is why. It's not comforting... But it is why.
I just read a case https://www.nycourts.gov/ip/cwcip/Trainings/subGuard/cslaw2010.pdf specifically the Tesla case.
The child in this case presented exactly like mine - disclosures to other witnesses, writing in notebooks, pictures of abuse, behaviors witnessed by others, rubbing privates in classroom...
And courts determined it enough evidence to not only ensure kids don't see their dad anymore, but that the mom is indicated for neglect for not protecting and only sees her children while supervised.
My case exactly the same presentation from kids. I got indicated by CPS for "emotional neglect" for coaching my kids to say these things. I am supervised no different than the mother who failed to protect.

So... Either way you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
You might as well make the choices that allow you to keep your head on your pillow at night knowing that it may not happen fast enough, but in time the truth seeks the light.

So sorry for my late reply to everyone's responses! I appreciate every one of you sweet mamas for reading my post and taking the time to help me. It's much needed!

Warrior mom - I definitely am trying to take care of myself so that I will be strong for my kids. I know we have a long road ahead of us. I am about to start counseling and have completely quit drinking because I could see that was becoming an unhealthy coping strategy for me at the beginning of this nightmare. I've been sober 3 weeks this past Sunday. : ) I made an appointment at my doctor to get started on medication because my anxiety is through the roof. Would like to ad exercise, healthy eating and possibly meditating in there! ;-) One thing at a time. Thanks for pointing out the cycle of abuse. I see this happening with my husband. I'm sorry that you had to endure what you did as a child with your father. Thank you for the great advice on talking to my children about the abuse without re-traumatizing them and to document everything. I've been trying, but I think I could use some work in this area. I either don't talk to them about it or I question them in a way that I believe makes them shut down. I want so much to make them feel better or to know the whole truth or I'm afraid that they will forget and not talk about it anymore. I strongly feel that because we are still in the same home with their father, he has the opportunity to manipulate them into not talking somehow. I hate that staying is safer for them than leaving.

rmbadger - I have more counseling set up for my children. This time at another place that does trauma / play therapy. I am trusting that it will be positive and praying that they will disclose to the right person so that I can move forward. You wrote "He's being extra nice so the children don't disclose and so that you don't suspect" I believe this 100%. It's so hard to watch. I had been keeping the children away while he was home as much as I could, but he started getting angry and saying I was keeping them away from him. It was causing a lot of tension and arguments, which was almost worse for my children than staying here and me staying in same room to supervise. I am exhausted and my patience is wearing thin. I have not had a break since this all happened. Going on 2 months. I am trying to hold it together, but know that I must get some me time soon.

heartsadx3 - What a great mama you are to have made time for your kids to talk about things bothering them if and when they needed. :-) I did get a book about good and bad secrets. I will get more. I'm afraid to leave them laying around however, as I feel that my husband would somehow learn different ways to manipulate them to keep quiet. Sad that I have to think this way.

scared mommy - I hate that I am in the same home as potential perpetrator. I would do anything to feel safe leaving, but without proof that something has happened, they are almost safer here than me leaving and him filing for divorce (which he would do if I left) and getting partial custody (which he would fight for and I've been told he would probably get due to no evidence of abuse). I am stay at home mother, so am able to be with my children and protect them from being alone with him when he's home. If he was able to have unsupervised visitation and overnights with them - well I can't even imagine! So I'm stuck here for the moment. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. :-(

96percent - Thank you for always replying to my post! My heart breaks for you and I am so scared of something like this happening in my case. I was already deemed a "threat" by CPS when I made the report and didn't immediately remove children from home. Even though doing so would have caused a whole host of problems and even though I didn't let children out of site with him whatsoever from the time they disclosed until DHS showed up. And then to have the case closed so easily and without any follow up with my children. They had 1 measly interview a piece, which were super short (I know they aren't supposed to be long) and then husband was questioned (with his attorney present) and he denied doing anything - so DHS drops case and lets kids and husband come home after a week and a half staying with my mother, which was traumatizing for them (not because of my mother - but because they didn't know what was happening and weren't allowed to see their mommy or daddy). Who is the real failure at protecting?! So you are right - damned if you do - damned if you don't!

Ashley73,
Good job! You are VERY strong if during this difficult time you could see your own personal problem and how it could hurt you, take steps to fix it AND follow through on applying yourself to staying sober! Very proud of you! My one tidbit of advice is invest in a dictaphone or use your phone to record your conversationsite (slyly so the child doesn't know, if you can) and than later on transcribe what was said onto paper or computer (if you have a secure Device your husband couldn't delete.) I didn't really sleep a ton until our case was closed due to documenting everything (I tried to not do it in front of the kids) but it was worth having all the info turned over to the police so that there were no doubts what the story was truly all about! Good luck!

Thank you warriormom! I'm also proud that I quit drinking. :-) I never considered myself an alcoholic, but have a lot of family history and I have an addictive personality so it's for the best. Drinking in the beginning (not getting drunk - just enough to numb the pain) was something that went from a couple of times a week to almost every night. :-O But that's over. I am so committed to seeking justice for my children that I will give up just about anything that might hinder that goal. Plus I see things more clearly than ever before with my husband. He didn't know I was drinking, but he sure noticed when I stopped. He couldn't understand how I was "fine" with him and all of a sudden I was back to not wanting anything to do with him! I'm sure he would love if I were still drinking. Easier for him to manipulate me and I'm a happy drinker. Now I'm just a pissed off mama who will stop at nothing to protect her children!

We all attach to something that gets us through. My Achilles is icecream. Not as destructive but unhealthy nonetheless! Keep up the good work! You ARE a good mom and don't you forget it. ;)

Hi dear. You say you're afraid of your situation morphing into mine... It's on the right trajectory already. Your husband is following all the exact same moves as my husband did at the same time. My husband too always had his atty present at all CPS interviews. I strongly suggest you start doing the same or else CPS is going to view you the path of least resistance to them and they'll fire away at you being not as aggressively protected by attorneys. CPS cares about themselves BEFORE they care about your children. They care to protect their licenses. They're going to think a lot harder before shooting at a target ready to fire back at them loaded with attorneys at his side. Without one at your side, you're a sitting duck.