semi-estranged; serially estranged and in Trenton, NJ. I would never prefer complete estrangement yet, Quest, but maybe that time might come, too.

I am not sure where I am actually. Currently I would call it completely estranged, but in retrospect I think my ED has been serially estranged her entire life. I just never defined it that way.

I divorced her dad when she was 6 (she's the oldest). I remarried when she was 10, acquired a step child I raised, and also had 2 more kids. She would come and go, get ticked off at us for trying to enforce basic rules and go live with her dad, get ticked at him, and back and forth. When she was 16 I said enough! We're done, if you go back to your dad's, that is where you are staying, and she did.

She is now 34 and I think I might prefer complete estrangement over putting up with any more crap from her. I don't know if she is capable of a healthy relationship - I think she might be mentally ill, have personality disorder, maybe unresolved oppositional defiance disorder, or just her head up her a** - I just don't know.

jlad32, I don't want to bring up a delicate subject but I was suicidal initially and I know I put my husband through hell. I thought about it for the most part of every day. I am normally a strong person but this really broke me. My son was my life, my pride and my joy but what I noticed the last time I saw him was that he was changed and I no longer recognized him. And more particularly, I knew he stopped caring and loving me because he was not in a good place himself. I believe he is the victim of emotional abuse. I tried to help him see that and that is when he asked me never to contact him again. Stockholm Syndrome, I guess.

Rocketgigi, Personality disorders are difficult because most people afflicted do not acknowledge that there is something wrong and so they will not work towards resolving their issues. I think my son's girlfriend may have a personality disorder and I believe she is behind our estrangement. It's interesting because they are abusive and then turn the situation around and somehow become the victim. They literally make you crazy.

Many of us, myself included, have/had suicidal thoughts. I think we need not to tread around that reality. Loss of one's child is, perhaps, the most horrific loss possible. it makes sense, whether or not we like to hear about someone thinking, or heaven forbid completing it. So let's not tiptoe around it. I am glad, Quest, that you are with us here. Your comments about personality disorders are spot-on; and they are crazy-making with us, their preferred targets.

Thanks for sharing all that!
Rocket, I love your description of where your ED's head is currently located! Again, spot-on!
Night Ladies!

Technically, I am reconciled with my daughter but it is not the same relationship that we had prior to first of three estrangements---all instigated by her. I consider myself semi-estranged because, with the exception of our birthdays and Christmas, I do not initiate any contact with her. The rest of the year, she contacts me about every 4-8 weeks to arrange to have lunch together. It is cordial but superficial because I am not the mother she wants. And, of course, having been abandoned three times by her,with no real intent on her part to restore a real relationship, she is no longer the daughter I want. Still, this arrangement is better than no contact at all.

at 17, my situation sounds somewhat similar to yours. I see my daughter, in fact I saw her this week..but it's very superficial and she never asks ANYthing about me.. I ask Qs and the talk is about what's touching her. Like you, I prefer this way to the times, several, when there has been FB and phone blocking and absolutely no way to know she was alive for months on end. After she stole 80 percent of my savings from the safe deposit box during the past year, it would be kinda hard to trust her anyway, anyhow. So, I know we'll never be the same as we once were.. which was very close. I wish we lived closer now (she moved an hour away) but not sure it matters, since what I crave is that EMOTIONALLY INTIMATE, caring, contact from her that's pretty much gone and gone.
today, my best friend in the whole world moved on to live in the city where her entire family lives, Las Vegas. I have been "outa it" all day. Gotta pull myself up for work tmw. but the coming weekends (we spent one of most weekend days doing something together for the past few years straight) this month will be times of real adjustment to the loss of her so caring company. good night all!

I am completely as he said he is happier that I am not in his life.

I am new here, not sure if this is where I am suppose to post. I have been estranged from my Son since December. This is not normal for us, I have never experienced 'not talking' . The worst part is that he wont let us see our Grand daughters. I looked after my 6 year old Grand Daughter for the first 2 years of her life. I am
usually a strong person. I am finding this all too much and hard to cope with. I know i should write more detail, but I am feeling desperate and was wondering if anybody has any ideas on how to try to push through this. I cannot accept this. This has never happened before. I am pretty sure my Daughter in law is behind it. We have alwas been a close Family

Welcome, Shannie! It is a sorry welcome indeed. I know there are SOME states where you could file in court for visitation with your granddtr; depends on where you live, you may want to consult an attorney. About being a "strong person," I have to say that I was called that a week ago by one of our sistas on this site: I certainly feel very weak when my ED is pulling her shit and I'm responding like a moppet cause I don't want to loose any thread with her at all! So don't discount yourself for being a mom!! How to push through? Not sure there's any technique.. But pretty sure that things change all the time, year to year. I guess one bit of advice I would give is that there is no telling what could happen tomorrow.. Your son and DIL could split up, for example. (don't scoff so fast.. our ECs aren't that great at maintaining healthy relationships, as you will see after a while on this site..) Do you try to contact him at all? What has been his typical response? Is there a father, or other relative involved who is willing to try to intercede on your behalf about seeing the GDs?
just some random thoughts late at night here in Jersey.
Sending you warm regards for your health and sanity,
M.

Jlad I am thinking about you and am sorry you are losing your good friend.

I am completely estranged and not sure what I would tolerate, not sure I could have a superficial relationship with an ed that has no respect for me. Just do not know.

Alfreda, thanks! for your compassion.. I actually feel slightly better now that she's moved on... the anticipation was the worst part.. Not saying I won't/don't miss her terribly; like a sister she sat at most of my holiday gatherings.. But she's happy out there in LV w her real family from what I can glean from one e-mail to date.

It's a tough call, this "superficial relationship" stuff!

I have some really important feedback for everyone, Alfreda and everyone else on here: Last evening, I met a friend for a movie and dinner: She is not estranged from her two chlidren. But she is a college professor that works with this Generation E for past 20 years. Her own son has challenges, OCD and Tourette's. And, sitting across the table from her at dinner, she sounded like a totally competent peer of mine, in terms of understanding the "why" behind psychodynamics of these kids. We talked about the Entitlement thing goind on with an entire generation or two. It's definately some of the exposures they have had wtih TV and video games that demean authority, especially "dumb" parents; which bring parents down to the level of peers. Also, we may be at least partially at fault: This generation of kids was the most planned for, wanted bunch in history. There are exceptions of course, but, generally, we had birth control and we knew when we wanted a kid or more. Mostly, Colette offered that they estrange, distance, when they are unable to understand their own emotional world: When they cannot or will not face something(s) about themselves. She also mentioned that this "re-writing history" thing, that seems such a common thread on all our experiences, comes about b/c they internalized things as "6 year olds, at a stage where they can't see multiple perspectives" and are stuck seeing an incident through that lens only.
I found her comments exceedingly helpful towards undertanding my own ED and thought it important to share with y'all.

Alfreda, it may be that she has no respect for you b/c she's "stuck" seeing something(s) that happened to you from a place of anger or fear. I have no pat answer to this, i have no answer at all. I can only ask.. would you not tolerate her presence if she were a REAL 6 yr old in a 20 or 30-something body?

Maybe we all need to start thinking of these kids almost as if they are developmentally delayed!??

Have a great day, Alfreda andn everyone!
M.

thank you for sharing your thoughts, what you say makes sense. Not sure what I can tolerate at the moment, I haven't been given that opportunity. I am not at a stage where I am shutting and locking any doors, but I am not leaving the door open either. I just know that unless my ed makes an effort beyond knocking on the door and saying "here I am" I don't know that I can cope with a relationship on a superficial level. However I won't say NEVER.

Interesting discussion at many levels. I too think they are out of touch with their own reality and thus find being a bully with someone helpful for them to feel an inner strength of sorts. I'm semi and probably totally estranged but those words really don't explain the total picture. I've not seen my son for over 3 years and received only 1 email from him recently after I emailed him regard my upcoming cancer surgery. In it he basically just said he saw I tried to work on having a relationship with my grandkids but had done nothing to work on a relationship with my actual children.. He really rides on the blame game. He has threatened me physically when I last visited him, hallucinating voices; he told me he deserved more respect and said I had told him to 'Fu-- Off"! I told him I never said that and was holding his new 2 month old daughter as he started bellowing at me while I stood trapped in his oldest daughters bedroom. It was scary. I finally laid down my 2 month old granddaughter and had to stand up to my son who blocked the doorway. I told him he could never ever speak to me in that tone again. I put my finger in his chest and said I didn't care how old I was (I'm 65 now) he could never ever speak like that with me then I pushed him out of the way and left their house. Anyway. It was drama his older daughter witnessed and she was crying as I scooted past his bulging, red faced anger and exited their home. I then went to a coffee shoppe and called my friend who lived out in their town. After about an hour I returned to say good bye to my granddaughter. She was then 5 years old. I have not seen my insane son since that day. I saw my granddaughter only once more, the next day, back in 2010, when she and her mother and I went to a ballet at their community theater. With my daughter it's been more painful because in part she was almost 9 years younger and the last to leave home. We had always been very close until she got closer with her brother in age and then met a control freak man who whisked her off to the end of a dead end road on the highest mountain top in Kauai in Hawaii. After 2 months there with him she told me to stop calling her so much and so I did cut it way back, then through a years time she started being angry with me and seeing a therapist. She was depressed and I expect it had to do with her man and where she was living in such isolation but who knows for sure. She became a bitch with me within a year and that was 10 years back.. Since then we have off and on been close but mostly it's been terribly bad. I have seen her only once since the summer of 2010, when all of us had spent a lovely week together at a cabin.. I really thought that trip was sealing a much better future for us all. Boy was I wrong. Within months the old games started up only with more of a vengeance. I think my SIL is freaked about me being close with my daughter and in particular my granddaughter. He wants his mom and crazy family to be exclusively the best. My daughter acts like she has been brainwashed and probably has. Still she is now 33 with 2 kids, a grad degree in psychology and well off financially due to my father leaving my kids a huge estate. They are spoiled and feel entitled and better then me. They talk down to me and I can't stand being around any of them. I miss my grandkids who will never have the love I gave them or could give them. I chose almost 3 years ago to tell them to stop their BS. I told both my son and daughter the game was over. I told them I was not willing to ever take anymore more BS and to back off and they have. I feel if I ever went back to taking the kind of BS they handed out and the huge disrespect and mean words and behaviors I might go nuts. I was close to it a lot of times. I value my own life much more then ever now. I will not allow myself to ever be dragged down so far again. The kids, in my mind are sick.. They are emotionally incapable of caring for their mom. I was a good mom. Not perfect, but damn good. I'd rather never ever see any of them again then go through the hell on earth I put up with for at least 8 years! That's a long time. I was just too freaked out to realize I could pull out of their life and be fine. It's a tough one for sure but I'm glad for me the bad times are over. I've got my life back and it's been damn great. The cancer was removed. No chemo or radiation, and I'm ready to get on and enjoy life to it's fullest!

ilad52,
You said, in part: " Mostly, Colette offered that they estrange, distance, when they are unable to understand their own emotional world: When they cannot or will not face something(s) about themselves. She also mentioned that this "re-writing history" thing, that seems such a common thread on all our experiences, comes about b/c they internalized things as "6 year olds, at a stage where they can't see multiple perspectives" and are stuck seeing an incident through that lens only. "

I thought ALL the comments you made were important, but these lines that I copied here are especially true, imo. I think the observation that there are developmental "delays" is a valid theory.

Abiline... most importantly of all: You are cancer free!!! Now THAT'S worth celebrating!! I do agree, based on your writing, above, that your son has some deep MH problem(s) and that your daughter is in a very inter-dependent, enmeshed, we call it, relationship with her spouse, the isolator. I wonder if he's abusive, emotionally, verbally, to her? But, as you mentioned, at 33, there's little we can do about our kids who choose these partners/lifestyles.

Phase: yeah, I was mesmerazied by my friend Colette's wisdom on these issues. In a few paragraphs, she "nailed it" about all these emotionally delyed ECs! The personal question for me remains: How do I accept my ED as emotionally/developmentally delayed and still hold some kind of "line" as Abiline says above, about what treatment I can't tolerate? It's a walking tightrope situation for sure if one wants to stay connected to any degree.