I think your son sounds a lot like my son William. My son has a diagnosis of ADHD and ODD. He can be very sweeet and caring at times, as well as very well behaved= whereas at other times he will just lose it ie. full blown arguing,yelling screaming, throwing breaking things fit- often over the smallest of things. The best plac to start would be with a child psychologist or other professional who has experience with this disorder to try to get a better idea of whether your son has ODD or not. I wish you all the best, I know how tough and trying going through rough patches with our kids can be, bu hang in there you are not alone.

Thank you SO much Nicolette - this is EXACTLY the way it is!! He can be so lovely and calm and 'normal' one minute, and then the next minute he starts running around like mad, banging the walls, throwing things, screaming at the top of his lungs... And what's really weird is that he doesn't even have to be angry, this behaviour appears when he's in a good mood too, it's just as though he's hysterically happy instead... and then, after having run about like that for a bit, he can storm into one of his brothers, bashing them, wringing their arms, throwing them across the floor... and then go "HAHAHAHAHAHA! THAT was FUN!!!!"

Aaaarrrhhhh... I don't know... I really don't.

I've tried calling 'BUP' (which is where you go with kids' psychiatric disorders in Sweden) but they just told me that this behaviour is probably just down to bad parenting, since he's ok in other social contexts, outside the home. So they won't see us. Told us to take some classes in parenting instead... They did tell us, though, that if we had a full report from school, indicating that there are similar problems there, they'd reconsider. We've set up a meeting with school on Monday, but I already know that that won't lead to anything since he's not acting this way there any longer. He used to - so much so that they wanted to get a personal assistant for him - but it's got better again.

Tired hugs
Katten (which, in case you're wondering, means 'the cat' in Swedish)

Katten, I agree with Nicolette, see a behavioral psychologist. I wouldn't call it 'bad parenting' I would say it's just learning how to parent a child like your 8 year old. We have 2 boys 13 and 18. The 13 yr old is ADHD/ODD, by the time he was ten he was literally pulling knives on us, physically attacking us and threatening to kill us in our sleep. We didn't know what to do with him. I think we were in denial for a long time but by the time he was 11 almost 12 he had punched me in the face and gave me a black eye. That was the last straw. We had taken him to a psych doc prior to that but he was pretty worthless. We went to boytown and worked with a pediatric behavioral psychologist and my husband and I both went to the counseling sessions with my son. We had to learn a whole different way to parent our youngest. He assured us we were not bad parents as we had a much older son who was parented the same way and he was perfectly fine. It is very hard, but in our situation we found that we had to change our ways before he could improve. It was the hardest 3-4 months ever but we saw results and he has not been violent in over a year. He still struggles with emotional behavior but we continue with therapy and hope that one day he will learn how to control it. He is making baby steps but has a long way to go. Good luck!

Hi Katten,

My 8 year old daughter was diagnosed with ADHD & ODD. She ONLY misbehaves at home. Some children with ODD do this, others don't.

I found good information about the disorder at the website of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry (aacap.org). The book "The Defiant Child" by Douglas Riley is fantastic. I just found his website, it might have good information there. (drdougriley.com)

You also might want to record some of your sons outbursts so you can show a child psychologist.

Please don't feel weird, you are trying to help your son & your family. As sad as it has been for me, it was actually a relief to have her diagnosed. Now I am much more focused, effective & understanding. Hang in there!

Again - THANK YOU!!!

It's a relief just to finally find some support, and being taken seriously! I guess everyone in here are struggling with the same feelings of hopelessness, guilt, anger, frustration, worry...

Anyway. What a brilliant idea to record him!!! I can't believe I never thought of that!! Of course that's what we should do!!! THANK YOU!!!!

Lots and lots of hugs to y'all!!!

Katten

Another thing to consider is Bipolar which in children displays itself very similiar to ODD. They can control themselves at times but only for so long and then they blow usually around those they know unconditionally love them. The aggressive behavior you describe that happens even when they are happy sounds like the manic stage. I would seriously look into both conditions and do some research. My son is only 5 and even though they have diagnosed him with ODD I am still on the fence as to whether it is this or bipolar. We have a history of depression in my family which might make him more geneticly inclined. Make notes and if you can even videotape an incident at home to demonstrate to doctors. We taped one once from beginning to end and both my husband and I were very calm throughout it doing all the things our therapist said to do and he was still having a serious meltdown. It was good for the doctors to see first hand! My heart goes out to you and glad you found this support!

Thank you SO much to you too, Ronin!

I've never considered bi-polar before... which is so incredibly stupid of me... I'm not even sure I dare admit this because you'll probably think I'm so stupid you won't talk to me any more, but the thing is that I myself is 'halfheartedly' diagnosed with bi-polar type II... That's a long story in its own right, but the short version is that after my fifth severe depression a few years ago I finally got some help from a psychiatrist who put me down as 'bi-polar type II-question mark' after his first 2-hour interview. I went to see him a couple of times, after that, mainly to get the drugs I needed, and that was basically it. It was never really followed up, and I'm fine now (even after having stopped taking my medication), so I haven't 'bothered' to dig any deeper into that... (need the time for other stuff - such as my family)

I guess the reason that I haven't considered bi-polar when it comes to my 8-year-old is that nothing in his behaviour fits my own 'psych experiences' - he's aggressive, mean and never takes responsibility for things that have gone wrong; he's NOT sad, anxious/worried, or 'self-blaming'. Also, since I'm a type II (if, indeed, that IS a correct diagnosis), I'm more focused on the depression part of bi-polar, I haven't really thought about the manic part that much... but of course your right.... makes perfect sense...

Please don't think I'm a complete idiot for not having thought about this before... I've just seen the aggression, the acting up, the meanness... and not connected the dots...

THANK YOU though for leading me here...

HUGS
Katten

You are so not an idiot!! It looks so very different with children that we don't often think of this one. I myself thought the same thing, my son is not sad, he's MAD. But the other day when i took him to pre-school and he had a complete meltdown(this was the one and only time so far he showed this at school and it was very brief) and was throwing things around, when I came back to pick him up he thanked his teacher for reading to him when he was feeling sad. Sad?? Really? But I never thought that THAT was the way he felt it! I also thought how can he be happy one second and then mad the next, but I read that with bipolar in children they can rapid cycle, going through all the moods in one day rather than spread out over months or a year. One book that I read that I found helpful was called What Works for Bipolar Kids by Mani Pavuluri. It gave a lot of info on the different kinds of meds too which I liked because when the doctor recomended a certain type I actually knew what he was talking about!! the symptoms and actions of both bipolar and ODD overlap so much it's hard to know which one, all we can do is read up on both and apply the behavior methods that work best for your own child!!

Hey,

Ronin - I'm sorry it took me a while to respond... I'm so glad though that you don't think me an idiot!!! I posted in the bi-polar forum as well, the other day, and basically learnt that there are very divided opinions when it comes to bi-polar in kids... Anyway, I'll definitely get hold of that book - sounds great!!

Ronin+anyone else interested - DO YOU KNOW WHAT?

We had that meeting with school yesterday morning (I think I mentioned it somewhere - don't expect any of you to remember though :) )

AND THEY'RE COMPLETELY ON BOARD WITH US!!!!!

Not that they have seen this behaviour in school lately, but they still took us really seriously and basically got really mad when we told them that 'BUP' (the place to go in Sweden with this kind of problem) had just turned us away! So they're setting up an appointment with the school doctor (it's a small school with no doctor employed, but they have one that they call in for special cases... who also happens to be the doctor who took care of J when he was a wee baby!!! He's GREAT!!!)!!! And he'll write a referral for us!!! YEY!!!! You wouldn't believe how relieved I am!!! I think they realized, too, that I'm really at the end of my wits... Thing is, I'm currently basically a single mum... For purely logistic work reasons me and my husband are living apart since the new year, so I'm living alone with our five boys, which is pretty much a hand full as it is, I guess, but which is even harder when one of them is... well... the way J is. The night before the meeting he tried to 'fry' a teddybear on the stove while I was giving the youngest his bath - the flat just filled up with these toxic fumes and the stove was a complete mess (that's was happens when you put polyester on a hotplate...) and I just went mental... So I guess it showed pretty well in that meeting the next morning, that WE NEED HELP. I can tell you I'm SO looking forward to when hubby comes back to live with us again in June...

Anyway, this was another long and rambling post...

Lots and lots and lots of love and hugs to all you struggling mums and dads out there!!!

/Katten

I'm so happy for you!!!! That's great. I think the fact that he is not showing this behavior at school is only a further point in your favour that it is NOT a parenting issue. He oviously has learned that that kind of behavior is not acceptable in public and has enough control over it in these situations. This tells me we are doing something right as parents if they have figured this out. Unfortunately they let it all out for those they love the most and feel safe with. They know we will love them unconditionally.
I have gone on the Bipolar site myself and have found a lot of conflicting opinions. I know it's hard to diagnose BP in young children but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that we should ignore the fact that it could happen. Keep us posted!

Will do! Keep you posted, I mean! THANKS!

Hugs
K

Sounds exactly like my 8 yr. old daughter. she has the diagnosis of aspergers (autism), odd and adhd. we say her horns hold up her halo, because she can be so sweet at times and in no time be the opposite for no reason.

Oh - that was a beautiful way to put it! :) And spot on... I'll remember that :)

Hugs
K

Congrats on getting the school to help you out. I hope their referral can get you the help you need.

THANKS!!!

Hugs
K