That is a hard and loaded question.

Forgiving oneself for adultery has many components to it and is more subjective to the cheater's perspective.

The only way to understand it better is to talk to your boyfriend and ask him what he means by forgiveness.

Even our terminology of wanting him to feel guilty until you heal isn't very clear.

Guilt could just mean feeling unproductive shame and self loathing. Guilt also has a component of ongoing lying and lack of openness that can resolve immediately by being completely open/honesty but the person may still feel the shame aspect for quite some time.

If you said remorse then it would be feeling sympathy and responsibility for the pain he witnesses in you. Whenever you feel down he may feel shame but also sympathy for you regarding the pain he caused.

Most times it is a combination of both guilt and remorse that someone feels.

Be honest with yourself in terms of the where you are at with forgiveness towards him. It's not unreasonable to admit that you want him to feel remorse but also to feel some ongoing shame for what he has done.

The forgiveness process is giving up resentments little by little and not holding them against the cheater. Till reconciliation is complete you will have triggers that will cause resentments to creep back. At those times you may just need to see some remorse or if you are earlier in the forgiveness process you want them to feel shame and pain to match yours.

Good points, thank you. At this point I am still in the stage where I want him to feel pain and shame to match mine. I for sure need to feel with every trigger and dip I have that he's remorseful and feel sympathy and shame, he does. But It bugs me that it needs a trigger for him to "realize" his shame, if that makes any sense, That's the thing I don't make sense, emotions don't make sense.
Im definitely not at the forgiveness point yet, so its just difficult to know he can forgive himself before I forgive him. but yes as you say there is different aspects to forgive for himself I guess.
Interesting topic for our next counseling session.
Thanks!

and on top of that it sucks for myself to realize how much I want him to "suffer" the pain like I do, I never was that "hateful" before. Sure didn't bring out the good in me :(

This comes from a discussion elsewhere and helped me think about forgiveness: “forgiveness is not telling him that what he did was all right – forgiveness is me laying down my wrath and desire to hurt him back – people do not understand forgiveness – it is choosing to give up the innate desire to retaliate“. So in this way, I have forgiven. I have no desire to retaliate.

I'm sure my CH "forgave" himself fairly early on. Its a way that they are able to live with themselves after DDay. It was a pretty shallow pool of feelings, lack of authenticity and low capacity for introspection he had to work with at the time. Everything was on a superficial level for him then. Just trying to put out one fire, then the next, not looking too far ahead or too deeply into anything. As to whether or not true remorse has been achieved after nearly 2 years...only he knows what is in his heart. I see regret, I see pain, I see some level of understanding of the destruction he willfully caused, I see steps taken towards atonement, I see self reflection and self growth. There has been significant change, but as I said before, only he knows what is happening within.

Wanting your CH to suffer as you did, is usually a pointless desire. Many cheaters capacities for feeling deeply and being hurt in the same way empathetic people are hurt is greatly diminished. It took me a while to figure out that even if I wanted to strike out and retaliate, it would not hurt my CH in the same way that it would hurt me. The stake through my heart might just feel like a mosquito bite to him back then.

My ex-wife thought since "god has forgiven me (her)" that she owed me nothing in the way of explanation or true regret.

I mean, my quest to know the truth of my life with her was "going against God" according to her.

It was such a crock of shinola.

Her regret was in getting caught and having that awkward task of dealing with those who now knew the truth of her shabby behavior.

A CS can forgive themself very quickly--presuming they even think they did anything wrong.

Do not use the standards you have about fidelity as a guideline for how a cheater reacts about their infidelity.

I just wanted to put my 2 cents into this conversation. I am a CS, and currently 2 years passed D-Day. My wife and I are still together. I won't bore you with the background, but I WISH I could forgive myself! Maybe it depends on the definition of "Forgive". If you mean you can look forward and not feel bad at all about what you have done, then I wouldn't call that forgiveness, I'd call that self-serving nonsense.
I still despise who I was and everything I did after two years! I do not let that reflect on me as a person now- Even though I've done these things, I cannot let that define me as a person. I'm trying to move forward and be a better human being, husband, father. But I've not forgiven myself. To tell the truth, I dont see myself EVER forgiving myself. I can come to terms and accept I did what I did so that I'm not a mopey, depressed mess. But forgiveness? I think not.

Very good points all of you. Thank you. Makes me help to self reflect my unreasonable thoughts.
@jim1234 your words are an interesting example I think of different levels if forgiving. Forgiving surely us not forgetting. I think that forgiving does not mean that one should not feel bad anymore. I think forgiving is to be able to give it a place in your life and not allow the padt to shape your future. To take the experience and use it to become a better person rather than stay depressed and sorry for oneself. My boyfriend reached tgat and I think you have reached that point.
Is that self forgiveness for a CS? Good on you how much you have grown it sure gives hope.

@jimthzz neither of us are religious so at least he can't use "God " against me like your partner did. That was a low shot of her in sorry you had to go through this.

@betrayed you are so wise. Your and forwardmotions words always help me a lot and challenge me to look at facts and reality within this emotional mess. Thank you for that. Based on your forgiveness definition I sure didn't forgive him yet hopeful I will one day. But you are vety right and I didn't see it this way but because my CS doesn't have my level of empathy he will never be hurt as much as me. Very good point.
Thanks all.

God's forgiveness is fine, but remorse also pushes the perpetrator to make amends so they are not mutually exclusive.

Jim123 brings up a good point from the CS point of view.

I asked my wife during her down times what she felt.

She said that she felt shame for all the people she hurt. I would classify this as remorse and not guilt.

Yes there is shame but it is productive shame as it pushes her to be a better person, make amends, and ensure she never goes down that path again.

The selfish, self pity reaction to shame causes one to be mopey and self loathing and will likely cause they to cope poorly in the same way or another vice.

The counselor has steered my wife in the right direction to learn to cope with pain in a productive manner. Affair after all are caused by internal strife and lead to horrible coping strategies and addictions such as affairs.

I read an article a while back where someone asked a marriage counselor what is the best quality of potential spouse.

The answer took me a few seconds to digest but then made so much sense.

He said, "a good spouse is one who suffers well."

The explanation is marriage is hard and life gets harder as you get older with disease, death, finances, business, aging.

A spouse who suffers and copes well with suffering will be a good and loyal support when you need them the most.

100 percent agree with that. We probably all assumed we had a spouse that suffers well. But turns out we don't.
@forwardmotion do you feel your spouse has improved in such a way that she now falls in that group of spouses that suffer well? That would be so nice.

I never thought she had good ability to suffer but I didn't know how important this attribute was until after the affair.

I think on the spectrum she moved from the bottom to just below a decently balanced person.

She had a great life. Older sisters took care of everything for her and when we married she moved into my condo directly. Never had worry of money or security.

She quit her job and took a easier job as I made decent money. She didn't know how to cook so I did the cooking. She didn't bother learning to drive so I did the driving.

She complained quite often about things and after a year relented and moved into a nicer new build condo. We stayed there for about a year and a half and she wanted a house. I bought her a house.

Every day she get home she would say how bored she was and wanted to do new things, so we went to new restaurants and places. She still complained and then had an affair.

....so you can see she had no reason to complain or any real understanding of suffering because she has always been taken care of.

Lack of struggles growing up make her weak, self centered, and entitled.

Now she has been shocked out of that and sees the world differently. Given that most learn how to cope with life throughout their early childhood I would say that she had made decent progress in the last .1.5 years, but a long way to go.

The amount of affection I have towards her is less and her responsibilities around the house are increased and she doesn't complain at all. She now appreciates what she had and what she still has.

I've noticed she thinks about others much more now and is moved by other people's suffering.

She is going in a good direction. How far she will go is still to be seen.

Thank you for sharing your story. It brings hope. My boyfriend is on the right track so far. He has changed I sure can see it. But will see if he keeps growing.

I guess he just doesn't have to drink poison every minute of the day just because he hurt you on a long term basis

Rubbish how the bad person often feels dandy while victims have to struggle to overcome the damage

I don't know.wanting him to suffer the pain he's caused you sounds just about natural

However ask yourself how long he's gonna want to suffer
Your going to have to learn to let go of revenge and pay back. That starts by making the decision to stop and perhaps remembering that you want to stay in the relationship and distracting yourself or thinking about Jesus on the cross or something

Your anger isn't going to change until you start thinking new thoughts.

If your relationship suxs for over a year why keep trying? Must be huge pay off for staying together

I don't know people in my partner's life sowed seeds of suspicion mine is cheating. Ruined Christmas for me. I'm just over the pain and forgetting about it now. I've decided to trust him and If he is cheating then I don't care as I'm happy

RE: JillSaundars

I suppose everyone deals their own way.

care if she is cheating or not.

Living a fantasy life for me is worse than just being single because I can't be happy being oblivious to cheating.

She is going to need to earn my trust because I gave it once for free and it was betrayed.

In any sense you should want to know if your husband is cheating just for health reasons. We have had a couple of people recently posting about HIV results and STIs.

Thank you, yes I absolutely agree that I have to try to let go of the anger and not want him to hurt, its easier said than done but Im trying.
JillSaunders I do not know your situation and if you have looked at the proof that he's not cheating Im glad for you you don't have to go through this.
I have yet to stumble upon someone though that has been warned of their partner cheating by close reliable friends who ended up being wrong. Its an enormous barrier for a friend to take to tell their best friend their partner is cheating, they don't tell that without prove.
We all think our partners would never be able to do something like that, yet here we are.
Im slowly moving forward, step by step, I am not religious, but his efforts help me rebuilt a little day by day

I am (was) a CS, and I am still working on self-forgiveness more than 2 years after D-day. I don't think there is one good answer. Self-forgiveness too soon feels like rug sweeping or not really processing the gravity of the affair, but never forgiving oneself means never being a full partner in the marriage again, not being able to effectively support the BS, and wasting a life.

I like what GoAskSuzie has to say about forgiveness (of the self and by the BS). Basically time doesn't ensure it will happen, and one person can't compel the other to get to that point. Anyone can carry their anger and shame to the grave or else we can choose to process and get beyond it.