my 2 cents on raising kids - everyone has life experiences and brings different thoughts and ideas to the table.

my parents gave me a lot of attention especially my father growing up mainly to do with me playing sports - me being the only boy - my sister on the other hand wasnt given much attention - my father didnt know how to relate to her and didnt really try - he does now give her some attenton - now that she is older and feels bad for not given her more attention.

she turned out okish - more of a taker - I am more of a giver - I received a lot of attention - she didn't.

I went to college and have a masters - she never went to college.

is this a true comparision - no but its my life experience - I wished my parents would have paid more attention to my sister and paid more attention to me in my grades growing up - i think I was just lucky that I turned out the way I did - hard work and luck but i learned from them and wanted to give my kids even more and attempt to do a better job of raising them from the foundation my parents provided me with.

In my eyes - my kids come first - if my STBX was on that same page (which I thought) didnt really figure out she was a big kid idiot till it was too late i wouldnt be in this site. I would be ignorant in my own little bubble trying to stay out of trouble and be with the family unit to be seen at parks fishing with the boys and playing sports. I can still do that but only when i have them which suxs.

life is like a box of chocolates except for some of us - we open the box and out flys a snake.

In the scheme of things, I think what shegavehimareason is saying is if the marital foundation isn't solid, neither will the family one be. If the kids come before the spouse, it weakens the marriage and puts at risk the stability of the whole family life, which is what we all want to give kids.

This, of course, doesn't mean one neglects their children in favor of paying attention to the spouse, and there are periods of time where the kids demand more hours of the day attention than the spouse.

But what tends to happen is if one or the other spouse neglects the other spouse in favor of focusing on the children. That actually happened in my case. Once we had kids, I was knocked down to the low man on the totem pole. This was made clear to me multiple times, so much so, it is in part what caused me to give up trying to be involved in their lives as much as I should because there developed a "me vs. them" mode of operation.

One example of what I'm talking about. This happened a few years ago, when our kids were teens, our oldest I think was early 20s. We had a computer in the living room. I was watching some YouTube videos on it one day over the speakers. My oldest comes in and turns on the TV, and turns up the volume, making it near impossible to listen to my videos.

Then she complains that she can't hear. I told her I was already there, and she should have asked me first. I didn't so much mind moving to my computer in my room, it was the disrespectufulness of her actions and rudeness I was attempting to address, and trying to get across the point her desire and rights didn't supersede everyone else's. I wanted her to realize she should have asked me first instead of just barging in and expecting me to "get the hint."

But Gabi, in the kitchen at the time and listening into the conversation, came to my daughter's defense, telling me to shut it down and go to my room. My daughter couldn't move the TV like I could. I attempted to explain to her that it wasn't about that, but about treating me (anyone in a situation like that really) with respect, and ask me first. She would hear none of it. No matter my reasoning, my daughter was right and I was wrong. The kids needs came before mine, no matter the situation. And to disagree with me in front of them was a sign of disrespect from my W, effectively nullifying any authority or respect my kids had for me.

I recall that one so vividly. Similar events had happened through the 20 something years raising the kids, but this one event, though not huge in and of itself, made me particularly angry and I felt desperate to do something, but I felt trapped. Practically speaking, I had the motivation to have an affair, not her.

So it is no wonder with the impending empty nest, my W began to fear being alone with me, fearing she'd be lonely. Not just because we had grown apart and didn't spend much time together, but because she'd perceived me as this low person on the family hierarchy, and now she was going to be left with the leftovers. Is it any wonder why when a womanizer came along and she found it too tempting to ignore?

Because of this dynamic, our kids didn't have the best family they could have to grow up in. Because of this, my kids for most of their growing up years, saw daddy as an uninvolved, and sometimes irrational man from whom mommy would protect them from. Not that we were totally alienated, by any means, but this is how they saw me, I believe in large part, because the kids were put above me as it concerned investing time and attention in. I felt like I was there primarily for the paycheck so they could do what they wanted.

And because of this dynamic, it provided the conditions and temptations to what would eventually become my W's affairs, and our kids came very close to losing a complete family. We attended my daughter's marriage and my youngest son's graduation from HS last year, realizing we very well could have been going to those events as divorced or separated parents...maybe even with bf and gf in tow. Yeah, that would have been stabilizing and good for the kids.

Point being, if you don't invest in your marriage first, you risk the stability of a strong and healthy family life for your children. To put the children's needs first, is in fact, to disregard the children's needs. Raising children is, or should be, a team effort, not the job of just one parent. Putting the spouse behind the kids prevents that team effort from happening, and ensures the needs of the kids aren't as adequately dealt with because you will end up with only one parent working to meet those needs fully, instead of two working hand-in-hand. Which will better meet the kid's needs? I'd say the one who is a team, not the one where one spouse is made ineffective in helping raise the kids because the kids don't respect him or her.

yes Cole, Onyx11, get and read the book Raising Kids God's Way, they have and addition for blended families...it is where my thought process comes from....it has some really good advice on this, if I could save just one child from what our 7 children, and now 2 grandchildren are living I would...my H went to the classes with me, read the book, agreed verbally with it, we tried, well as it turned out he didn't really, and I gave up when I was made to be the enemy.....I wish I could just call you and speak this out, there are so many things to say....and I can't take anymore remembering painful stuff right now.....I am glad you have something that is working, but for long term, read the book, get the work book.....in the beginnig when I was allowed the same curticy, when I was "raising" the kids with mine, and the exes didn't start the "you don't have a right to tell my kid what to do...." and start poisining the kids against us trying to keep a family thing going with a set of house rules for behavior and hygine.....I love his kids but he sided with them and his ex that I was the enemy and separated us and it is a big part of all of this.... '

HI onyx11. I am sure that you have given due attention and affection to your ex. However, she's been selfish and insensitive to you in spite of all this love. I may not be on the same boat with you (I am yet to become a mom hopefully in May), but I would like you to know that I am hoping things will get better for you. I am yet to see my own baby but just thinking that I will be away with her flips me out...I cannot imagine how hard this must be for you. I will include you in my evening prayers...Good luck.

Onyx- In response to your initial post- (I haven't read this whole thread) I agree completely with you! The shock and horror of my wife revealing her affair and continuing to see the OM when I was still very much in love with her was awful, but months later, going through divorce, I keep her at a distance and see her for what she is.
I am heartbroken daily that my kids have to shuffle back and forth between us, that they don't have both parents at home to put them to bed at night, that they miss one of us while they're at the other's place.
Although my STBX and I don't bad-mouth each other in front of the kids, it's obvious that the loving, playful, affectionate relationship we had has completely deteriorated and we no longer speak to each other. I worry how the divorce will affect their relationships as they get older. I miss having my kids 50% of the nights too!
"Don't stay together for the kids" is an often used line. I agree with that statement when the marriage is toxic, the 2 people fight all the time and staying together creates an unhappy home for children to grow up in. BUT, when you have kids, you have a responsibility to them. You have to consider them as a factor in staying or leaving a marriage. You have to take them into account when you ask yourself what you realistically expect from your spouse.
My marriage wasn't perfect. We weren't happy all the time. There was work that needed to be done. But it was far from toxic. It wasn't a bad marriage. I think my wife thought she could have a thrilling, new exciting life with her AP that I couldn't provide for her and she took steps to cut me out. She thought only about herself and really didn't take the kids into consideration when she was in the "bull in the china shop" phase of making horrible choices. I held out for as long as I could to save the marriage and keep our family unit stable.
In the end, you have to do what's right. Idk...