The good news is...you still have options.

I dont' know if you have considered counseling, but it's a great way to put your terms down in a way that she will understand that 'I will be treated as your husband and the father of your children, in the way that our vows dictated, and not your whims of what truth is by what day of the week it is. take it or leave it.'

Or it may be time to separate and gather yourself to find out if you really want to continue living like this or make a life for yourself and your kids.

It's alright for you, or anyone, to say 'I deserved better than that and will have it.' It's alright for you to be happy and to have peace. Be it with your wife, or without.

L~

we have tried numerous counselors (7) and we go until they figure her out. She is very good at manipulation and it takes a while for each counselor to understand who and what she is. Then after that, we are in search of another. Current counselor is very ill and I am in search of another and now more for me than for marriage counseling. First counselor my wife just lied and when the discovery of her first affair was out then my wife blamed the counselor for not understanding. The second counselor, we made it a few times and then the second affair was revealed and she walked out during our last session. The third counselor we had 3 sessions and she told us we are hopeless and needed individual counseling. Our individual counseling was helpful for me to put things into perspective and her individual counselor my wife found something wrong with her a stopped going. Her next individual counselor only lasted a few sessions and only because I told her I wouldn't continue until she went back to individual counseling. she seen her a few times and my wife claimed the counselor told her she was doing all the right things and never went back again. The last counselor has been helpful and started to get into our past and childhood. We even started to see her individually and making progress I felt, then she got sick and not sure she will continue her practice.

Very long story, but yes, we have been deep into counseling. I feel there is so much more she needs help with and that has kept me going. What kind of man would I be if I left the women I love when she needs help. I have made a promise and vow and my commitment to those vows I take seriously. I am a proud man and have done everything I can to stay but now I am not sure how or even if I am helping. How can I help her when she thinks she if fine and explains that affairs are "common" in todays society.

Bottom line - do you think your wife can be the spouse you need and deserve? I'm all for 2nd chances, but sometimes people SAY they want a certain thing but just can't make it happen because of their baggage, character, personality, whatever. You'll know when you're absolutely done.

So sorry you're going through this. : (

Sorry. It certainly sounds as if you hit a dead end. Yes, you did take your vows seriously and I certainly think that if you decided to leave, you could do it with a clear conscience, knowing you did everything possible on your end. But your wife does not seem to be doing anything on her end. Sound like she made your marriage contract null and void, so you shouldn't feel bad if you want to call it a day.

Hmmm...have to say this...

I am sure your wife loves you. In her mind and heart, she can honestly say that she loves you. But not everyone loves the same way. It's just a fact.

Some think that lying by omission is alright because they love you and don't want to hurt you. Or they say, 'yeah, I love you but you got me so mad and that's why I did what I did so it's justfiied.' Or take my EX - he did love me, but I finally had to say, 'he loves me but not good enough' because in my version of love, there is no need for shouting and name calling and cheating and lying. There was in his but not in mine.

She may love you but she may not love you well or as you deserve.

Take those super controlling people - those high maintenance people. To them, they are loving totally, in thier perspective. To us, they are just apeshit and driving us nuts.

It's not just love that binds you to someone, but a common moral code of conduct on how to 'be' when you love. Yours may be different than hers.

L~

L and Lisa rocked it with their answers. So, yeah... WHAT THEY SAID.

I just wanted to really enforce that a "broken" family doesn't necessarily mean "divorced"... sometimes it doesn't get "fixed" until parents divorce/separate. If one parent isn't stepping up to the plate in the marriage (the very core of the family!!) or if both parents are just toxic together, THAT is a broken family.

In other words? You gotta do what you gotta do to FIX your family, and if your wife can't be straight up with you and can't do what it takes to be the loving, affectionate, responsible, *faithful* partner you need, then that's on her, not on you. That isn't to say she isn't/can't/won't, but as has been said, until you can set down exactly what you need in order to move forward and until she complies, this will NEVER get better.

I'm a firm believer that those who are trying to make their marriage work after infidelity need to be in some sort of recovery program. Doesn't matter which - as long as it works for you. My husband and I used Marriage Builders, but there are dozens of others out there that are likely just as effective. The key is communicating and rebuilding TOGETHER, not just "moving on" and pretending like things are OK.

Hope you find a solution that works for you.

The longest distance in my life is the 17 inches from my heart and brain and that is my struggle. There is so much more to my journey and this is so hard to deal with. I love my wife so much but need to start loving myself. We have been together for almost 21 years, married for 15 years. When we first started dating I suspected she was not faithful back then and my heart said no way but my brain knew better. Now after all these years that disconnect from my heart and brain has come full circle to bight me in the ass as if to say "I told you so". now what is left of me is half a man for following my heart. I am a good man, not perfect, but have taken pride in who I was. I have provided for my family, I don't drink, never have, I don't do drugs, I don't chase women, never cheated, only been in 5 relationships my entire life and value women in the way I thought was right. I find myself asking more and more what did I do wrong and that is another hard part of this, I thought I was a good man but how can I say that because if I was a good man none of this could have happened. I don't know, still so very lost even after 2 years and still dealing with who I am anymore.

What would your life look like without her?

Maybe the best way to help her is to leave her? This doesnt mean its permanent. She may need to realize what she has and will loose if she doesn't accept responsibility and accountability for her actions.

Sorry you are going through this..

I totally understand what you are saying and feeling. It's like they are strangers. You don't feel like you know them any longer. Many of us have tried to stay for the sake of keeping your family together but at what cost? You do still have a lot of options,even though it doesn't feel like it. Your life is not over. She doesn't sound like she even knows what she wants! You can expect more info to come out as time goes on and there will also be info that you will never know. It hurts to know that someone would do this to their family and I do wish that I had some reall good advice to give you. The only thing that I can say is, don't ever let another person define who you are or your happiness in this life, it's way too short.

Some people don't now, and never will truly think cheating is wrong. They simply have a different moral code. Se may love and want to have you as a husband, but always want to cheat on the side. Sounds crazy to most of us, but to her, maybe it sounds fine, and "common"

I just saw an example of someone who feels entitled to cheat in my own life. It baffles me. This individual is very pleased to be getting away with cheating, quite proud. ((boggle))

I am sorry for all your pain and confusion. It is heartbreaking that you can't trust or feel any assurance of her behavior.
Maybe some space from her for awhile may he;p our perspective?
Seems like you could use a break ..... You must be emotionally exhausted.
Five years for me since finding out the score in my life. My heart is still broken, and I will say what is in the dating pool at this age... should be chlorinated.
Listening to what you are surviving, Maybe my divorce was best for me after all, no matter how isolated and miserable I am in the outcome. I admire that you can tolerate this, but think I would not be able to manage it al all, would be losing it constantly, possibly even getting violent. Being a betrayed spouse hasn't done a thing for my sanity...
I hope you can find some inspiration about what will help you to forward your life from this really hard place. It is hard to give up sometimes, and hard to read the cards too.
Hope for the best for YOU. Those who willfully cheat seem able to look out for themselves just fine....

OK here's the deal:

You are not slipping by leaning towards leaving. I feel so bad that you feel this way but I feel even worse that the "Reconciliation Industrial Complex" makes all BS feel like they're a failure if they don't reconcile. (RIC is mostly made of marriage counselors and even individual counselors, well meaning relatives, friends and folks on groups like these that push reconciliation) (no one that has given you advice so far, has done that but they're out there)

Infidelity is one of the few things in the bible (when taken literally) that is perfectly OK to abandon a marriage. I'm not even religious but that is the one thing in the bible I can relate to.

Look, infidelity is a deal breaker for a lot of people and you owe your wife absolutely nothing. She cheated so it's her tuff crapola if you leave the marriage as a result. That would be the ultimate consequence after intimate betrayal.

Also remember that is better for children to be FROM a broken one than to actually LIVE in one. If your relationship is unhealthy for you, it is unhealthy for your children!!!

I know you love your wife but the real question is "does she love you" and in a way that makes you feel satisfied. If the answer is yes, then certainly stay and fight for your marriage. If there is any ambiguity, then by all means "Run, Forrest, Run!!

Sending support and hugs!

When you are dealing with someone being dishonest and start doubting everything, I think it can be like getting into a soap opera or watching a season finale. You get this idea in your head that you must know what happened; that you must get to a stopping point before you do anything. But if the person isn't honest, there may be no stopping point. You may never know what really happened but may have to accept that.

I think that may be what is happening with the counseling. Once they see that they aren't getting straight answers from her, they know there's no way to work on both of you. It wouldn't be fair to ask you to compromise and work issues if the other person doesn't have the issues on the table. Counselors are often the same way with affairs - they will see you once but they won't continue counseling if the affair is ongoing because there's no point.

Do you think your wife was having these affairs for control purposes over you? or do you think she just wanted to find happiness via sin - perhaps a bit of both?

Cheating is not common when your married unless you want to play russian roulette with someones health and life.

It sounds to me she is blame shifting like a pro. My STBX is super shallow - is yours?

I personally am almost divorced from my STBX and I don't think about her much - just think she is in totally crazytown. It has cost me personally a lot of money and she will complain now and then about crap but this is the bed she made for herself.

I don't blame myself anymore - I know it all comes down to her - so perhaps a seperation is due for you and her so she can fully immerse herself into crazytown and see what thats really like and you can get a break from her craziness.