Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
Here's an issue I'm still struggling with.
As some of you know I caught my wife having an affair back in October of 2008. Apparently it had been going on for about 5 months.
She really screwed up our relationship but has done all the right things since D-Day.
Of course, not wanting to make matter worse, she denies having had any other affairs over the course of our 24 year marriage.
But how do I know for sure?
Knowing now that she was open to this sort of thing, should I be so naive as to believe that the one affair she had was the one where she got caught?
I was reflecting last night about a number of instances over the years when I suspected that something might be going on.
On one occasion I found a photograph of a man posing sexually but clothed, in a comic way, lying on a bed, with a screw-gun in hand, in a customer's house (she's an interior designer).
I found this in her underwear drawer.
Another time a business associate of hers, after a couple of drinks, mentioned that he had an intimate discussion with my wife about anal sex. Apparently his wife wasn't up for trying it.
And there are quite a few other examples that were pushing the boundaries but you get the point...
But we're adults right? We're both pretty open minded about sex and have never been prudish.
Back when these things came up she made me feel like an idiot for even mentioning them. They were just co-workers clowning around.
So anyway...2 weeks before D-Day she went to a daytime business event at a hotel in Princeton. I wasn't invited. She primped and waxed (yes, that area, a new development)and got her hair done and got all dressed up...complete with new Victoria's Secret underwear. She said the designer ladies all get dressed up for an event like this; no big deal. The waxing was something she wanted to try but the timing was just coincidental. As the cops say, it just didn't smell right. When I asked if I should be concerned about all the fuss, she replied "what do you think, I'm fooling around?". Duh. Sorry sweetie. Again I felt like a jealous idiot for even mentioning it.
As it turned out, her web design class started at 9:00 AM and ended two hours later. She spent the rest of the afternoon with her "friend" who had driven down to Princeton and was there, in a hotel room, waiting for her. Ugh.
Weeks later I discovered an old archived invoice in her shop with his name on it; turns out she decorated his house back in 1995. So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that their affair has been going on since then. I still don't know for sure.
The more I dig; the more I uncover. So do I go deeper?
I really want to believe that there was just one affair with one man. But ultimately I want the truth, even if it means the end of our marriage.
I thought I could tell when she was lying to me. I was wrong about a lot of stuff where my wife was concerned, obviously.
So the question is...can we ever really know if our spouces have cheated "successfully" in the past, if we didn't catch them and they don't confess?
Or at least, how can I stop obsessing over it?
As some of you know I caught my wife having an affair back in October of 2008. Apparently it had been going on for about 5 months.
She really screwed up our relationship but has done all the right things since D-Day.
Of course, not wanting to make matter worse, she denies having had any other affairs over the course of our 24 year marriage.
But how do I know for sure?
Knowing now that she was open to this sort of thing, should I be so naive as to believe that the one affair she had was the one where she got caught?
I was reflecting last night about a number of instances over the years when I suspected that something might be going on.
On one occasion I found a photograph of a man posing sexually but clothed, in a comic way, lying on a bed, with a screw-gun in hand, in a customer's house (she's an interior designer).
I found this in her underwear drawer.
Another time a business associate of hers, after a couple of drinks, mentioned that he had an intimate discussion with my wife about anal sex. Apparently his wife wasn't up for trying it.
And there are quite a few other examples that were pushing the boundaries but you get the point...
But we're adults right? We're both pretty open minded about sex and have never been prudish.
Back when these things came up she made me feel like an idiot for even mentioning them. They were just co-workers clowning around.
So anyway...2 weeks before D-Day she went to a daytime business event at a hotel in Princeton. I wasn't invited. She primped and waxed (yes, that area, a new development)and got her hair done and got all dressed up...complete with new Victoria's Secret underwear. She said the designer ladies all get dressed up for an event like this; no big deal. The waxing was something she wanted to try but the timing was just coincidental. As the cops say, it just didn't smell right. When I asked if I should be concerned about all the fuss, she replied "what do you think, I'm fooling around?". Duh. Sorry sweetie. Again I felt like a jealous idiot for even mentioning it.
As it turned out, her web design class started at 9:00 AM and ended two hours later. She spent the rest of the afternoon with her "friend" who had driven down to Princeton and was there, in a hotel room, waiting for her. Ugh.
Weeks later I discovered an old archived invoice in her shop with his name on it; turns out she decorated his house back in 1995. So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that their affair has been going on since then. I still don't know for sure.
The more I dig; the more I uncover. So do I go deeper?
I really want to believe that there was just one affair with one man. But ultimately I want the truth, even if it means the end of our marriage.
I thought I could tell when she was lying to me. I was wrong about a lot of stuff where my wife was concerned, obviously.
So the question is...can we ever really know if our spouces have cheated "successfully" in the past, if we didn't catch them and they don't confess?
Or at least, how can I stop obsessing over it?
I think most of us know something is happening, we just need tangible proof to make it real in our minds. While my husband was denying his affair to me, and making me feel like I was crazy, he confessed his affair to his cousin... After his death, his lover kept calling my his phone. A friend of ours answered it and told her what happened. At that point, she confessed that she was the OW... Later, she and I talked and she said that he had told her he had had another affair... It occurred the last time I felt like something was going on...
Listen to your gut... it's rarely wrong!
Unfortunately when we dig, we do find more than we bargained for.
I will give you my opinion, attempting to remove the bias as a fellow betrayed man.
I will copy some of your post and respond after each space.
But how do I know for sure?
You never do without proof. A cheater will seldom fess up unless you have undeniable proof. Her admitting to prior affairs would be the death nell to your marriage and she knows it. She does not want that. You may say to her that you will accept the truth.....for her to be honest......but she knows any further admissions would NOT help the marriage.
Knowing now that she was open to this sort of thing, should I be so naive as to believe that the one affair she had was the one where she got caught?
You are not naive. You trusted your wife, which is what you should do. She broke that.
I was reflecting last night about a number of instances over the years when I suspected that something might be going on.
It's amazing how our memories can look back on things differently now. The file cabinet has been opened. I did the same......and now question former excuses for my suspicions.
On one occasion I found a photograph of a man posing sexually but clothed, in a comic way, lying on a bed, with a screw-gun in hand, in a customer's house (she's an interior designer).
This most definitely sounds like she was sexually involved with this man. It certainly is NOT proof. However....what would be the context of a man sending this to someone otherwise. Look at the obvious symbolism. My theory.....a screw gun joke at the beginning of their boundary crossing. Then.....upon consummating it....this became a funny thing between them. I can't imagine a man thinking this was okay to send if their relationship was professional. BUT...MOST IMPORTANTLY...I can't imagine your wife...ACCEPTING.....and KEEPING this photo if it were a business relationship. This would be completely out of line if this were business.....and she would have told you about it. Also,,,was this a film or digital photo? If it were emailed...why would she keep it? If it were emailed, he also had her email address. If film...he had to mail it or hand it to her.
I found this in her underwear drawer.
A VERY common place for people to hide things.
Another time a business associate of hers, after a couple of drinks, mentioned that he had an intimate discussion with my wife about anal sex. Apparently his wife wasn't up for trying it.
I don't see an affair here....but certainly boundary crossing. Your wife should have told him that she does not appreciate that kind of talk.
Back when these things came up she made me feel like an idiot for even mentioning them. They were just co-workers clowning around.
YES....but your wife permitted and encouraged it. It is VERY easy for a woman to stop this kind of talk if she wants it to stop.
Weeks later I discovered an old archived invoice in her shop with his name on it; turns out she decorated his house back in 1995. So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that their affair has been going on since then. I still don't know for sure.
Unfortunately, it looks like it started back then. Why would they resume contact 13 years later. Again.....I am NOT stating this as fact. How did she explain how the contact was initiated for this affair? He called her 13 years after meeting her on a business level? It really sounds like it started in 95, although it could have been an EA for some time before it turned PA.
Your wife sounds pretty uninhibited, so I would surmise that a PA started sooner rather than later.
The more I dig; the more I uncover. So do I go deeper?
You won't know the truth otherwise. However...if you love her and want to stay married to her....you may have to look at it differently. If she was a serial cheater....she needs to address it. THEN...it becomes part of the OLD marriage and the OLD her. You would have to look at your marriage as a NEW marriage in order to proceed with her.
I really want to believe that there was just one affair with one man. But ultimately I want the truth, even if it means the end of our marriage.
That is WHY you won't get the truth. She knows this.
I thought I could tell when she was lying to me. I was wrong about a lot of stuff where my wife was concerned, obviously.
Most of us here thought similarly. You were a good man for trusting her. Now however.....it will take considerable effort for that to return.
So the question is...can we ever really know if our spouces have cheated "successfully" in the past, if we didn't catch them and they don't confess?
No fool proof way.
Or at least, how can I stop obsessing over it?
Time, therapy, a willingness for her to change and a willingness for you to forgive.
Her words held true for me. I think they will hold true for you, too.
I'm sorry.
I also don't wax for other women.
She's doing it for someone of the opposite sex and ... are you saying it's not you?
Then, it's someone.
She is JUMPING over boundaries, just as blind said. She is testing some waters.
I agree with the others. Dig. Dig hard and deep.
Wow, that really sucks...
L~
No, you don't. Because their credibility is severely damaged. In the case of my ex-wife, irreparably so.
And even though we aren't married anymore, she pays for that broken credibility even now, because we have to deal with each other because of our son. I verify and cross-verify everything she says that I don't believe. I hold her feet to the fire when necessary.
The point I'm trying to make is, that when they lie about something like this, you are correct to cast a cynical eye towards everything else.
It is up to them to rebuild that credibility; it is NOT up to you to lie to yourself about things.
Example: Because my ex used to travel extensively for work, I now assume there have been ONS that I don't even know about. Does it matter now? No, not really. Point is, she cheated and got away with it for a period of time. What about the things I DIDN'T catch? It's not beyond the pale to think it could have been worse. It is up to them to prove otherwise, IMO. If that's too much to take for a CS to take, it's time to call the lawyer(s).
Well I can only tell you about my obsesses behavior. I have a tendency to obsess over things. Not to the point of it being a problem, but when I'm obsessing over something any time i have down time I will be turning the information over in my head over and over.
It has served me well in the business world. I would obsess over issues until I found an acceptable answer or resolutions. Which is exactly what your doing. looking for answers. You may find a way to keep the thoughts out of your mind. but until you find acceptable answers to all your concerns. It will always be there just below the surface eating away at you.
Don't let the obsessive thinking effect other areas of your life, like work etc... But find a way to get the answers you need. Real acceptable answers.
How to obsessing over it- I guess you tend to see them in a different light. It's sad really because to knowingly & continuously hurt their "loved ones" (not to mention putting their health at risk) is just soulless. And to hurt the spouses/kids of the ones they're having an affair with is just cruel & selfish.
I guess the only way to stop obsessing over it is to just not give a shit about people with that lack of character/soul and/or leave.
And, a cheater that never gets caught is not "successful". It just means they are good at manipulation, deception, lying, and without a conscience. Nice character traits, huh?
And you are right, they deny other affairs if there is no real proof (even when there is proof) because it will make matters worse (and it will make them look worse).
I'd love to hear some ideas on this one.
And well said DAB, well said.
-TheRule
After we started working things out I had to make if VERY clear what I thought was inappropriate. We still struggle with him being alittle too nice to other women and my reactions to it.
Good luck but make sure you are ready to deal with whatever you find!
"And, a cheater that never gets caught is not "successful". It just means they are good at manipulation, deception, lying, and without a conscience. Nice character traits, huh? "
This is something that I have to remind myself of. Great way to look at it when I start getting down on myself for missing affair clues.
Knowing my H cheated on me once was painful enough. We are doing well so why would I want to screw that up? I am living for now and tomorrow and trying to let go of the past. As long as he continues to do the right things and my gut doesn't tell me there is a problem I am not going to look for something I can't change that will only make me feel worse. I say let it go.