I would love to see the answer to this too...unfortunately I think it really depends on the person and maybe why they had the affair to begin with. Wish I could be more help but I have no idea with my CS is thinking...I don't even know who the hell he is anymore.

There's all kinds. Some like Gabi who not only said she was remorseful, but demonstrated it with actions and do all they can, go at it with the right attitude. Others won't be honest, and continue lying. Or intend to be good, but don't address what prompted them to make a bad decision, so it happens again. Or they think they can break away from their AP, but are overwhelmed with feelings for them and find too difficult...the list could go on.

Most of the CSs who post here are those honestly working on themselves, so your results may be skewed.

I am a former CS. I worked hard at having a healthy marriage, gave up and gave in to an A for a time, and have returned to working on our marriage. My H, now more conscious that we have issues which require effort, is more on board than ever before and we are doing much better.

People can change if they are willing to be honest with themselves, take ownership of their issues and do the work. Others will engage avoidance tactics and continue causing damage. You have the right to assess what you need and to choose your response.

People, in general, act as they perceive they are treated. (NOT as they WANT to be treated) If someone perceives he/she is unloved and not being treated well, they will generally react to that. Usually that reaction IS NOT treating their spouse the way they wish to be treated. Can they change and be faithful forever... I think yes. But only a lifetime will tell. And it ALWAYS takes two doing the right things, all the time.

I don't know if they can change but they will never have the trust or respect they once had,at least not from me.What if they are doing everything right and things seem good and bam they do it again? No way to really know and who wants to live that way?

I hear you loud and clear gina, in the begining of a "new" romance a person is willing to take some chances, but when promises are made, and betrayal happens it is a whole different story, trust is earned and once broken will neveer be the same again....and many are repeat cheaters, and then they can easily explain away to themselves that "flirting" isn't cheating, that as long as they don't have sex they are not cheating well that is the biggest lie of them all

Unfortunately, as a general rule people don't change.

I think it depends on what kind of cheater you have on your hands.

Is it someone that has multiple indiscretions? Serial cheaters like cake and ego kibbles. I would leave that kind of cheater.

A one time cheater? Maybe they have hope but who knows. If you forgive their "one transgression" then statistics show they are more likely to cheat again because they got away with it the first time (unless they do real work and seek counseling, etc)

I personally believe that infidelity permanently alters the relationship you are in now.and not for the better. Maybe in some cases it can but it's hard and for most, unlikely. Visit www.chumplady.com and see what she has to say. She believes reconciliation (true reconciliation) is like a unicorn. A mythical creature that is unlikely to exist.

Sorry I couldn't be more optimistic but that's what I think.

I agree with neverceases that infidelity permanently alters the relationship.
I think few people can really change. There are some that can, but I think most cheaters keep cheating.

many cheaters, especially seriel cheaters, always find a way to BLAME the BS....because they feel ENTITLED TO REWARD(ego boost, new sex partner)even when they are being selfish a-holes and treating their spouse like shit, they think they are not being given their proper laud, so they find an unsuspecting victim, a vulnerable person to use for their pleasure...and they have typically perfected their lies and excuses to keep their pleasure hunt going and making it "innocent" flirting....they want the fruit without the input of right behavior, we reap what we sow, but when what the sow is falling on rocky soil, not tended to like it should be they blame the rocky soil, not their lack of attention to the seed they are planting....and even it the soil is porperly prepared, it still needs fertilizer, water and attention, selfish cheaters who feel entitled don't get that so they cheat and take whatever they can and don't care who gets hurt in the process, as long as they get what they want, and then wonder why what they had that was great is now broken and they lose that which was better to what meant nothing....I don't think they ever change, I once believed that they could if given the right information and support system, because when I was a child I behaved like a child but when I learned and knew better I did better....nope that didn't happen in our case, and now, after I caught him he says he will change...he already made that promise in so many ways in so many promises and he broke EVERY ONE of them in an instant with no consideration, he didn't even know the stranger he dicided to have unprotected sex with for 11 months.....and now he feels really bad because he did know better and he did it anyway, because he perceived i no longer loved him and I believe our relationship is forever altered and not in a good way, that whole lie of an affair making a marriage better is full of shit....our marriage will not be better than the love story we had, and yes we did have a love story because we were supposed to be together, he forgot that, HE FORGOT, and it has now cost us what was good....it was not a fantacy only in my head....

The affair does not make a marriage better, but it can result in greater awareness of real issues which may lead to improvements in the marriage. Often people are able to separate the choice to.cheat from the state of the marriage itself and address those aspects for which they are responsible.

fiber....for the record our marriage wasn't bad, we had a great relationship between the two of us, it was a lot of horendous circumstances and things that were out of any of our control and instead of my h looking to that good relationship he looked to selfish pleasure search and found it, there by abandoning me to the crap, turning his back on what was good to get a temporary high off of someone elses back, and that good relationship, that kinship that was good and suppose to last, is still there and it is the thing holding us where we are, because now that he is looking in the right direction, he once again sees what was ALWAYS there, only now it is BADLY DAMAGED AT HIS HAND.....and we may both lose that gift, because some things can't be fixed, "some broken hearts never mend...."

It really depends on the person who cheated. I will not generalize, and am only speaking for myself, but I did cheat - with one person and this was the only time I ever had an A. I was raised with values and morals and would get physically ill throughout my A. I knew it was wrong. I felt guilt, sadness, remorse. I no longer know who I am. I wish I never had the A.

I will say this. It has opened my eyes. I realized a lot of things about myself and how my actions did nothing to solve the problems in our M. I am also seeing and now focusing even more on my problems in my M. I've tried to talk to my H before and during the A and he would make empty promises and apologies and yet repeat the same behavior. I am not blameshifting. I accept ownership for deciding to enter into the A. It certainly didn't solve any problems, only compounded the ones that were already there.

I am going to IC, because I am at the point where I no longer want to be M because I have changed so much. I don't need to stay in a M that is unhealthy and not growing with me. it's not fair to either of us. If my H actions would match what he promises, maybe things can be different, but he refuses IC and we no longer go to MC (we've ben for about a yr now).

I personally will never have an A again - it robs everyone involved of a true, authentic, fulfilling life. Once I learn how to stand up for myself and stop trying to "save" people and get involved in relationships that aren't good for me, I'm hoping I can find some true happiness where I can be myself. I entered into the A, because we were friends and I felt - based on what my AP told me - that he and I could have a life together, we were so well suited for each other. I really thought, this would turn into a long committed relationship after we got out of our M.

Sadly, I will say this - again, NOT generalizing, just talking about my situation, but my AP had a very entitled personality. He had a very rough childhood, and had the mentality that - life is short, I want to be happy and not put up with bullshit, and if I have no more feelings for my W, then there's nothing wrong with me finding happiness elsewhere. People like that, also need some deep soul searching and work, or else the patterns will repeat themselves.

Also - at one point during the A, I went through the range of emotions - first, feeling like my AP was my soul mate and my H and I grew apart. Then, I felt guilty and confused and thought this is crazy, Ive known my H 22 yrs, my AP for 3 yrs - this is not right. I will stay M and just hold my AP in my heart as a lost love/timing not right for us. Then I realized, I'm always making decisions based on how it would benefit the other person in my life. I stopped being true to myself for fear of.... i don't know... losing the other person if I wasn't all that they wanted?

Sorry this is so long. Sorry for those of you out there suffering in some way in your M.

shegave, for the record, I wasn't talking about your marriage.

Fiberjunk and notmyself,

Thanks for sharing your story. Now that you are over with your affair, do you still have your AP in your heart?

Here's my 2 cents -

Think back to your normal realtionships growing up -
Once you break up with a girlfriend or girls - boyfriend - you were either waiting for it to be over or you were broken hearted when you were broken up on/with.

Sad for a while or for months or even years...

How long did it take you to get over them? - that normal realtionship situation....Again that being "NORMAL" dating....

Depends on if you wanted out or not correct? If you got sick of that person - if you fell out of Love with that person....

This is when you were younger and dating someone.... - normal romance - normal single/dating etc.

Most of my realtionships growing up lasted 2 years. They normally never got passed that mark.

ok - now onto the A - your dealing with a taboo - hidden - cloak and dagger - sinful - resentful laden - forbidden - married - f'd up realtionship where people are getting freakin high off of it each WTF....

This person probably told them a bunch of crap and your S told them a bunch of crap complaining etc- to form a complete awesomeness of bullcrap bound....

Your single days --- you probably would never mention your ex girlfriends because that would just drive the other single person away --- OOO NOO - Most likely not with this opposite world BS...That is what bounds them again...They contrast and compare.. use that as jet fuel to get even closer to each other....

Well - if they ever figure out this con artist/preditor/AP of a person - is a total POS - then its pretty darn fast for them to wake up and get back...

If this POS keeps feeding their need for sheer awesomeness ego stroking happiness through sin - then it could take years for them to snap out of it and land back to planet earth - depends on the person/situation/resentfulness non reality based situation.

I like what shegavehim said - you reap what you sow - or that the grass is greener where you water it....Its not greener on the other side - cats pee there - dogs take poops there...

Basically these realtionships are build on quicksand - one thing that noble people have on their side is we are committed - we are committed to being normal and good - these people have no commitment --- they are living day to day in crazytown.