Why not answer the question? Well, first of all, it was not directed to me. Second, some people SCREAM almost every time I offer the benefit of insight to my behavior. It is being made perfectly clear by your wife that my story, and whatever insight might be gained from it, is unwelcome here, at least and vehemently by her.

Finally, I come here most days to offer support and insight, rather than to gain it. Here, as in every other aspect of life, some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Honestly, though, when I'm persistently attacked, shamed and/or lied about I do feel more need for support than usual, and I tend to hold on that much harder to what has become an important place to me. And I have one helluva grip.

umm...I did answer the question

I dont understand the hostility
if you want to list all your faults and shortcomings as cheater I'm not stopping you
you know you better than anyone, especially me

but I really dont know that spouises who were betrayed can label, analyze and demonize/belittle all cheating spouses

people are so complicated, and so different from each other that I dont really think one side of a relationship equation can make generalizations about the other side -- they havent experienced the others experiences, and even if they had, its only projection that you think you know the others thoughts, motivations, or frailties

thats not just in terms of infidelity, but just about every other relationship dynamic

I can imagine a number of scenarios where infidelity can be committed by good people in good marriages

I've heard of some from real people

it makes them flawed human beings, it doesnt make them drama-addicts, or bad mothers or any of the other meanspirited labels we want to apply to them because our feelings are hurt and we just cant imagine someone who loves us hurting us so cavalierly

and whats interesting to me is, you have a few cheating spouses telling you that the overgeneralization doesnt apply

so why the anger?

why cant we just use terms like "some"?

its more realistic

Joy I understand what you're saying - However I still believe some generalization can be stated. i.e. Cheating is WRONG, cheating is a selfish act. A Good person doing a bad thing does not change those truths.

Based on my personal experience as a cheater, and knowing many others who have, I believe generalizations cover MOST. There are always exceptions to the rule, but stereo types exist for a reason, because - in general - they fit the vast majority. If the generalizations don't fit you - then simply state that and why but don't get so upset over the generalization.

um...i'm not here as a cheater (??)

if you dont want to use the word "some" thats Ok with me
I hope it can be OK with you if I continue to point out the generalization

I'm Ok with that too

Fiber - I assume you'll be able to explain why you decided to drag my wife into this thread when she hasn't even posted on it. Why are you looking for a fight?

And I believe his questions were open and basically directed at everyone.

I dont think my CS tried to bring me down. I think he was so broken he tried to find every other way to feel better (OW, beer & online chats) instead of facing an uncomfortable situation at home by having a serious conversation about how he felt.

I also really feel that OW/OM are in the same boat. They are seeking something that they are lacking or maybe they are using the A as a bandaid to feel better about what ever is broken with in them.

I too felt "broken" before his A, but i never cheated.

It's really amazing how much a like we all are in respect to our feelings. Including CS & OW/OM. I can relate to the feeling of the female posters on CA. The same struggles they had in their marriage, i too have had or maybe still struggle with. So, so many times prior to D day i felt alone, unwanted, felt like i he never helped & i felt scared. I begged my H to go to counseling since we couldn't resolve it on our own- he refused. I see the same pain from some of the women in CA and in Infidelity.

The only difference is how we each handled these situations. Some leave a marriage, some cheat, some seek help, some just accept it & continue to be miserable. Some never see the light & continue the path of destruction.

We all are people that are hurting, some just chose the wrong path in handling their pain.

I'm amazed that i'm even writing this. I can recall a time early on when i first joined DS. I posted here about saying something nasty about the OW. At the time it felt good. I recall getting one response from a BS that said what i was doing was wrong & mean. It hurt & made me angry. I wasn't in a place at that time to see clearly, as i can now.

Some find it easier to be miserable while others grow & become better people through this horrible experience. Some people grow & heal and different speeds.

If the generalization doesn't fit you simply state that and why.

Um, yeah, that's exactly what I DO! That's what brings on the screaming that I'm causing some kind of harm by staying that there,are exceptions! Doing what you just suggested I do is EXACTLY what sets her off!

Why did I bring her into this? Because YOU asked why I didn't answer the question! Your wife is part of why so I couldn't very well answer the question without bringing her into my answer.

Jesus, if you don't want the answers, don't ask the fucking question.

Isitjustme, I hear you and you are so right. Everyone here is or has been in some kind of pain.

Physically, I live with continuous, a kind of pain that leaves me exhausted due to being unable to sleep, as the pressure of my bed against my body wakes me before I can get to deep, restful sleep.

My husband has degenerating discs and old injuries from two car accidents that leave him in almost constant pain.

We used to bitch and moan to each other about who deserved more sympathy than the other. Then we learned that comparing pain is impossible because it's all subjective. There is no means of objectively assessing or measuring pain, mine is not greater than his or vice versa. It just is what it is.

Everyone here hurts in instead or another, that's why we're here.

I've come to terms with myself and my choices, and forgiven myself just as my husband has forgiven. That said, I still hurt and I still have moments of weakness. In those times it helps me to come here and reinforce my beliefs and boundaries by sharing them with others.

Finding common ground with people like you, on both sides orchid complex issue, is of great comfort to me. It helps to remember they we are all human, capable of poor choices and capable of forgiveness.

fiber, that last sentence is where I am too

my ex divorced me because he said I wasn't a good wife or mother, that I wasn't doing what a wife should, now he is re-married and is doing all of the wife stuff because his wife is a hoarder and doesn't do anything....he tried to make me lower than low, but sometimes what you put on someone else comes back on you...Karma i guess

Interesting question because I was cheated on by a long term bf before my H. He did try to bring me down. He wanted to beleive we were 2 negative enrgys working against eachother. I believed him. It turned out that he was the negative energy. My life immediately took an upswing after I left him and his spiraled in circles for years.

My H that's hard to say. In a way yes he did but it was so long ago that it's hard sometimes to timeline it all. Since dday 3 years ago, no absolutely not. But during his cheating years, I think I would say yes. He was a bit (a lot) of a dickhead.

We had a pretty dysfunctional relationship and I probably brought him down too. He would basically say I was not good enough at anything like making enough money, keeping a clean house, dressing nice, cooking, etc.... I did the same right back to him. So it's hard to know how it all really was.

Good question. And personally I didn't see it as demonizing but rather a general question based on whatever ideas and thoughts are rolling around in your head. I only skimmed through some responses but didn't see any response that said all. Either way I hate to see another thread become more about the oc of how people answer then answering the origional question uggggg.

Impono - to answer your question, I would have to say that before the A my marriage was mostly distant with moments of closeness here and there.

I consider the state of my marriage at that time to be doable. It really wasn't that bad. Just somewhat distant and stale. I really wasn't aware of "unmet needs." When the therapist suggested this was the case I disagreed with her at first. I told her, "I love my H and my M is great. I have no idea why I did this." This was very early after Dday and I was a very "sick" person at that point.

I think the condition of my M was a contributing factor and there were many others. Many that were much much bigger. Contributing factors exist in the case of all A's and they are just that. They are by no means excuses or reasons why.

In my case I felt like my M had nothing to do with my A. I felt that the A happened in spite of the fact that I had a good M and a good life. I tried to live 2 lives (real and fantasy) and keep them separate.

I didn't try to bring my husband down to my level. I started out as the emotionally healthier one of the two of us. He was relatively broken and, over the course of 12 years, dragged me down to his level and then, when he had some power over me, he shoved me down even lower so that he could feel powerful and emotionally safe.

The condition of our marriage and my damaged emotional state contributed to me being vulnerable. When the OM started hitting on me I had virtually no defenses.

They say that when a man decides to cheat he cheats down, finding the weak or wounded, easy prey. My husband definitely contributed to making me into easy prey, first for himself and then, ironically, for the OM. That's the problem with 'beating' the strength out of a woman. She's weakened to everyone, not just the abuser.