I visited a board a bit like that once - and only once.

It is possible to be compassionate towards him for what he suffered, yet still condemn what he did in abusing others. But I think most people find this very hard, they want life to be black and white - good guys and bad guys with no overlap. There are the people who confuse reason with excuse. There are also plenty of people who just look for anyway to avoid facing the problem.

Of course this man can't heal. To do so would mean recognising the severity of both what he has done and the severity of what was done to him, which I suspect he is also in denial of. Maybe for this reason he doesn't want to heal. There must be many abusers like this. They are very dangerous because they deeply believe what they say.

I totally agree, Moonface21. We can't be compassionate to the point of not having any limits or rules. There is a way to be compassionate while also expecting a person to be accountable for their actions. People have to be accountable.

If we say there is no good or bad, then we are making equal both love and hate.

I think there is a difference between judging someone and categorizing an action of a person as wrong. I can judge behavior without condemning the person. Sure, we can be nice to each other, but when a person who has done wrong won't be accountable, I do not interact with that person any more. I can be compassionate from afar, as I am with my ex-husband. I pray that he will realize the divine spark within himself and be the best person he can be not only for my children's sakes but for his own. That compassion does not require me to be nice to him when he does wrong.

And I agree too that one cannot heal without facing what one has done. We have to own up to our wrongs and make amends and love ourselves - not our egos, but our true selves - to heal.

good points all Moonface!

moonface21,

He can't heal while in denial. Period.

I agree with both Breakingtheshell and Dragonfly's post. Compassion towards the person, not the deeds.

I believe that in the spiritual realm there is no 'good or bad" but we are talking corporal life on earth where cooperative and peaceful living demand rules, laws, values, ethics, etc.;

To say there is no good or bad is to give yourself a free "get out of jail card" allowing the person to not only hoodwink themselves, but others as well.

What do you think it's going to take for survivors to realize when they are being manipulated?

xx
Suz

As with most molestors he is cunning, clever, manipulative and a classic preditor. denial is an amazing thing, for many it protects us when we can't deal with the truth for others it holds us back and prevents us from healing. For a preditor it is their first line of defense.

His time will come and i don't blame you for being upset. I find many times people simple choose to be blind. and that is not your fault. ongradulations standing up for what you believe is right.

rich

Just my thoughts, I just can't buy into the sympathy trip that it happened to them, Yes empathy for them for having gone through that, but definitely none when they know what it feels like and continue on with this behavior. Still an angry spot for me. Yes if they want to change then forums should be there for them but not amongst survivors. It's been a dream of mine to work with perpetrators since I believe they hold the answers in stopping this on going problem and to help protect the children of the future. I've had many strange looks from other survivors about this, but I feel I'm well past the "bullet in the head solution" and feel there is always a better way, we just haven't found it yet. I do know though this is apart of me since I soo much wanted to help my father become a good person, but was too afraid to try and help him. Perhaps I'm driven by shame for not trying.
This man will never heal until he faces his own demon, himself, but hopefully that day will come for he may have the solution. So glad you looked after yourself and got out of there, it's just not worth the grief. My best to you, Blaine

Somehow, it reminds me some of a man I unfortunately still am in contact with. (due to mutal friends)
He is "a vicitm" and wants sympathy. But he is also one of my abusers. I try to set this aside for my friends. However, it is hard when he online dates 12 and 16 year old girls, insists he is totally cured and does nothing wrong.
Charming to the core, purely narcisstic, he can do no wrong in his own eyes (and many around him.) he admits he is on the offender registry due to "a mistake" (I put his sorry butt in jail, but. not for very long).
He claims he wants to appologize and make right, and then tells me (in front of our friends) how sexy I look.. UGH... (btw, i am looking for new friends now!!!)
How do men like this heal? most often they don't. In their mind they are perfect, can do no wrong, and have never made a mistake. Any alteration from the universe they created to build their non existant self-worth is either destroyed, or must be false. (THey will go out of their way to prove that source false).
I spent years, trying to convince myself he could be saved.. by 9... I had figured out that you can't save someone who is high off the power trip their own universe gives them.
All you can do, is hope to warn others, but.. even that only helps reinforce their claim you are crazy.
It's why we need each other, to support one another and hopefully, gently point it out when we are looking at that sort of person again.
We must heal, there is no way we can heal them, but we can heal ourselves and protect ourselves from allowing another near.

Side note: I hear all the time "don't judge them, it's not your place it's god's" because he is supposedly now super religous and a changed man (notice still dating 16 yr olds online by his admission!!)
a minister I once knew told me this "It is not our place to judge their fate or lives, it is very much our place to judge their role in OUR life"

There is no excuse for molesting a child. He had choices and he chose what he did. I am disgusted by him and avoid him. I believe that those who feel sorry for him have their priorities messed up. Feel sorry for his victims. I was in two different incest survivor therapy groups when I found out there were abusers in the group I walked out. Some people criticize SIA for excluding abusers, but in order to heal survivors need a safe place. SIA would not be a safe place if they allowed abusers. They use the excuse that AA will accept anyone so SIA should.

SIA is a different fellowship and they can set their own guidelines. Like in AA you can not mention therapy in SIA the is no rule that you cannot mention therapy as for most it is necessary.

I don't believe you should mix abusers with survivors unless all agree to it. They have their own organizations and they can form their own support groups and if a survivor should want to support them they can go to their support groups. I wish them recovery but not at the cost of denying survivors their recovery.

I have zero compassion, or sympathy for child sex abusers, I don't care what their background is. They are disgusting scum of the earth. I don't blame you for leaving that site.

I'm starting to really love nelliefay's honest self expression :)

I agree that no abuser should be given a "pass" just because they were abused. I was too, but would NEVER think to knowingly abuse another - I have made statements that later I saw were inappropriate, but never with the intent to abuse.
As a social worker, we are trained to judge the behavior, not the individual. This was the ONLY way I could work with male abusers in group and one-on-one settings. I had to look at the HUMAN in front of me and talk about his behavior, not him. Although there is a high rate of recidivism among Dom. Violence abusers, there is an even recidivism rate among sexual abusers - almost across the board. That is why I found it particularly hard to deal with DV abusers who had sexual abuse as one of their tactics. But my profession required it, and I am known to be very good at my profession. But the hardest thing is to even get the sex. abusers to admit what they did was wrong - and I heard almost everyone say they had been abused in similar ways as children. Some of us want to break the cycle and we all know how hard our challenges are - I think the challenge is just too hard for some and they choose instead to continue the cycle of abuse.
I have a great deal of issue with that type of person or one who uses their past to justify present abuse. That is NOT taking responsibility for their actions, it is blaming and they are great at doing that. Sex abusers, especially in incest cases seem to have the "it was not my fault" idea drilled in especially deep - and when they put it out there it should immediately be shot down. I am sorry you had this experience as the other members were just being manipulated my this man - so many of them are Master's at that game - some can't tie their shoes, but they can tie others into little knots with the greatest of ease, you know?
I hope you were able to voice your disapproval before you left - But I am glad you found DS because I can't imaging ANYONE getting a pass here for perpetrating continued abuse.
How very sad.
All my best -
Refuse2quit

Thank you for all your comments which helped me so much.
Yes, there is a lot of misguided compassion.
I suspect a lot of people use this term , and "forgiveness" too, to evacuate any real attempt at looking at and working on the issue of abuse.
@refuse2quit:That board is part of DS.The policy of DS is that members report what seems abusive to them.
As in any group dynamics, what seems to threaten the group's "safety" is ostracised.
In that case, me challenging that poor guy who flatters so well everybody'segos there and can attract their empathy and eager desire to be loved,
The most sad is that hardly anybody understood the lack of boundaries on that board .

Scum, dirty and rotten! I have no compassion for people that abuse others Period!

i apologise in advance for any i offend here. I understand your disgust at the behaviours of the person Moonface portrays at the start of this thread. Its hard to be sympathetic to any sex offender who refuses to see his behaviours as predatory or harmful irrespective his being abused himself as a child. And i also understand your dismay that a predator such as this should be using DS boards to continue his preying on vulnerable young females. But there are things you may not be aware of or understand in Moonfaces postings, chief amongst them is that this is not the first time Moonface has attempted to manipulate DS members to support her vendettas against others, including the person she speaks of above. The person Moonface is referring to at the top of this thread is tyzz27, who has been a member of DS since 2007. Some of you may know him from this board or the Multiple Personalities Support Group which is the board Moonface claims she had to leave. Some may also know him from other boards that he may be active on. I only know him from the Multiple Personality Support Group. And its only in the past few months ive had much to do with him directly.

As far as i can remember tyzz27s history is as follows. I may have some of it wrong but well probably never know since Moonface and one other member have been successful in intimidating and hurting tyzz27 until he recently left DS altogether. When tyzz27 was about 2 or 3 years old he was sexually abused by a family member (i think uncle?) and another for 2 or more years. This abuse was severe enough to cause his personality to fragment and he became multiple. Then when he was around 8 years old tyzz27 was coerced into participating in an active paedophile group consisting of 7 adults and a number of children. His participation with this group lasted until his early teen years. Then sometime 7 or so years ago his wife found child pornography on his computer. The pornography wasnt images or movies, it was paedophile stories. To her credit she told the police and tyzz27 was arrested and charged. He appeared before the court and was tried and convicted, receiving a non-custodial sentence. Whether the non-custodial sentence reflected the seriousness of the material found on his computer or reflected the truth that many courts treat paedophiles far too leniently, i dont know.

i first became DS friends with tyzz27 about 2 month ago when he started being bullied by another member of the Multiple Personalities board. Tyzz27 had just posted that in his therapy with his psychologist counsellor he was finally having to address the issue of his seeming to have willingly knocked on the door of the neighbours house where severe abuse occurred, knowing he would be abused. He was having to deal with the shame and guilt and the feeling that as a preteen he was somehow complicit in his abuse. The other member of DS that has been bullying tyzz27 posted that tyzzx27 didnt have to knock on that door, so why did he implying tyzz27 was a willing participant in his sexual abuse by all those adults. As far as i know tyzz27 has been in therapy for much of the time since his conviction, trying to heal from his abuse and make sure he never reoffends again. Moonface didnt mention any of this did she? In fact she allowed you to believe that not only was he not in therapy but that he was also unrepentant about his behaviours. I believe she lied. She also told you that tyzz27s paedophile abuse of children continued until his wife reported him to the police. According to tyzz27b his actual sexual activity with children occurred only during his involvement with the paedophile ring. He was a child himself then, so im not even sure if that constitutes paedophile behaviour? I believe him cos in the years ive observed him here on DS ive never noticed anything that seemed inappropriate in any way. I have never observed anything to set my antenna twitching. He has always been upfront in admitting everything ive recounted in his history. In this i believe Moonface has again lied. If any of you know of a posting by tyzz27 that might support Moonfaces accusations please post it here linked to the original thread so i can view it in context. Ill give it the serious consideration it deserves. If i believe it supports Moonfaces assertions ill publicly apologise to her here and revise my opinion of tyzz27.

you might ask why should i believe tyzz27 is telling the truth and Moonface is lying? This is a valid question, but the answer is simple Moonface has publicly lied about me in the past. She has posted to the Multiple Personality forum that i am predator, i am paedophile, i am perpetrator. She has posted accusing me of deliberately befriending girls and young women on DS and telling them that i am studying obstetrics / gynaecology in order to lull them into talking about their reproductive systems and their sexuality. She has also posted that i have multiple identities here on DS. One of these identities is allegedly tyzz27. I have never presented as an Ob / Gyn student, i have never been a paedophile nor am i tyzz27. Ive never met him and have had virtually no direct contact with him before the past 2 months. Moonface seems to have decided we are the same person based on the fact that we both live in Australia? I live in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney and tyzz27 lives about 900km away in Melbourne. I asked Moonface to post anything she thinks might prove her accusations against me and offered to leave the Multiple Personality board if any 2 members thought she posted valid evidence supporting a single one of them. I also invited the members of that board to scrutinise all of my previous postings on DS (at that time numbering about 340) and again if any two members thought a single one of them was sexually inappropriate then i would without question leave the board. I received wonderful support from members of that board both privately and publicly. No one found anything inappropriate and Moonface declined to furnish a single piece of supporting evidence to her accusations. Instead she offered that her history of abuse, her involvement in support groups and her alleged integration of alters has bestowed upon her mysterious powers to detect predators. She feels she can make unsubstantiated character assassinations here on DS with impunity.


http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Multiple_Personalities/forum/15356990-moonface21-and-mamoth/page-2
Here is a link to my thread on the Multiple Personality board for the last time she did this if you wish to see just how Moonface does these things. Youll see how when challenged she refuses to provide any evidence what so ever for her accusations. I hope you take the time to read it. And perhaps understand how Moonface has triggered your natural abhorrence of an alleged unrepentant paedophile predator abusing young women here on DS to make you her tools to damage tyzz27? Because this thread and the near universal approbation of your responses was the last straw that convinced him to leave DS. Not because he is guilty of Moonfaces accusations but he had to leave before any more damage was done to his fragile system. TYzz27 deserves better than this as do Moonfaces other victims.

As for you Moonface, i call upon you to provide here any evidence what so ever supporting your accusations against tyzz27. If again you refuse to do so then i think the members of the Incest Survivors Support Group are entitled to do as members of the Multiple Personalities Support Group did and assume you act out of malice. And i again call you liar. If this displeases you then i can only repeat my suggestion from the last time you did this call in the DS Admin to view this thread and ill willingly have them scrutinise both of our behaviours in this matter.

kevin

a PS
i forgot to mention that i have only ever had a single identity on DS - this one. I have never ever participated in or been a member of DS under any other user name than k2hsharpe

kevin

I don't think you are following the rules of the road, k2hsharpe. Moonface did not call out anyone and did not identify the board so none of us could have known who she was talking about. You are the one who just did that, and I don't know why but once I saw you calling out a name, I stopped reading your entry.

If Moonface did not feel safe, and she said she did not in her original post, then she has the right to share with us here on the incest board. I am sure I am not the only one here on the incest board who loves and respects Moonface and who has benefited from her kind thoughts. She is not a manipulator. So, if you would be so kind as to avoid personal attacks here on this board, that would be great.