One thing about trials. Tulsagal told me this who is in the trial all by herself, as Gilead couldn't find anyone with stage 3 cirrhosis whom qualified for the trial requirement.

Foe all trials companies cherry picking their patients, they picked the ones they think most likely "cured" in our case who can hang in with the treatment.They want to make sure the results are look good for FDA approval.

Istill don't know my Gyno type up to date, and many CT and TT could have been spared from the expenses and the hassle they had to go trough for someones profits.For nothing for reward. Those gyno types were the key factor for the results. Why didn't they disclosed this info from the get go? So we could have make the final decision. I bet many doctors didn't know this at the time as Vertex did not give them the relevant information.

And i said this relentless times any company can change the real outcome of the trial, who is there two witness whats happening beyond closed doors, Money talks. lawsuits comes later and money is already put aside for the payoffs.

The greatest example of this Vioxx where people were dieing and still was taking years to stop the sales. Profits were in many billions so the pay off was easy.No one went to jail either.No one admitted liability. The trial documents and real life cases didn't match.Just like in our case.

And my last note....Non responders are not recommended treat with Incivek, as on the trials they all failed .It was recommend it for prior relapser's or first tries only. Did not worked with the TT or CT Gyno types to well .Very low or almost no response rates.

I agree with IMK - the non-responders would drag down the rates. They are non-responders due to their response to interferon. In my opinion - I also think the niave's with IL28B CT and TT's are going to drag down the rates. Triple relies to much on the interferon to assist.

I relapsed on Triple (didn't even think that was possible) And I didn't do anything wrong - I've never been so accurate in my life.

My thinking goes back to the IL28B and I was a CT. I think anyone who failed SOC once or more is not a good candidate for Triple. I think the protease inhibitor still needs a lot of help from interferon to clean up behind what the PI doesnt get. I believe that is why I failed.

A non-responder to triple had one of the well known reisistant variants the PI couldn't get. Her CT predisposed her where the interferon didn't help. For me, the PI wiped out everything it was supposed to. I didn't have any resistant variants to the PI - and I relapsed - left with 14 different critters - what I believe the interferon was supposed to kill.

It was a gamble. I lost. Today I firmly believe in two or more drugs to attack the virus. OR - be the coveted CC.

This is just one study of a fairly small group. I'd be hesitant to extrapolate those results to a broad population. Especially, as Kramer points out in post #13 that we don't know the parameters of the test.

We aren't seeing anything like those results here on this board, whatever that is worth.

But I still wonder what percentage of people start triple therapy and don't finish because of the horrible sides? I suspect it is a much higher number than the drug companies will admit publicly.

Bob

GUYS...i have read it prior to this where other doctors put the success rate to 20% . Even lower. Not many people who actually completed the triple because the huge fall out rate. It was estimated to 40% who has fallen out early verse the 20% admission from the company to FDA.

The 60% who went on with the treatment had a 33 % success rate. 27 % didn't work on the end or the treatment failed them, or relapsed on a later time. I hope it makes sense like this. I have personally read about this.I am positive we could find the article if need it.

Kat - just read your post #6 - and I certainly can see why you feel that way - I think everyone does who has achieved SVR - as in, is it REALLY going to last? Well, let's hope so! But yeah, can anyone ever believe it's dead forever? Like other "bad stuff" - cancer - it can hide and wait. Viruses (is that the plural of virus?) are MEAN and tenacious and cunning. Again, I hope that you and so many others will remain SVR for the rest of your lives.

This stuff about triple, the real world numbers, is horrifying and disgusting. So many of "us" did that triple terror, and now this crap is coming out. I am SO glad that I didn't do it - but I came so close...... And Riba - latest news is that it's not needed with some of the newer drugs, at least. I've seen that with people I followed in trials who got no-Riba arms and cleared just as fast as the ones who were on Riba - and are remaining SVR as well. Just - infuriating - the suffering endured for no damn reason... except Big Pharma $$.

I am not worrying about relapse. We have all learned ,and know by now this virus comes back with a roar and bites when the treatment failed. In 1-3 months after stopping the meds the number of viruses goes high again. This virus is not the hide out kind, as it shows it fangs instantaneously.The best example of this the people who couldn't complete or did and the virus resisted the medications.I have never read anywhere yet this virus would made a comeback after the 6 months Undie test, after this miserable treatment completed..I heard it yes, for 1 single patient and the doctors were clueless why in Miami.

With the old SOC the virus just went under for a period of time , for some people only , where the test could not detect them anymore.They were there but under 45....Today if i am correct the standard test is goes down to 5unit. A way more accurate, so relapse is kind of interesting word to use, it is not a relapse rather virus on the vengeance as it never been eradicated fully from the body.This is not a cancer cell.

As someone who did 30 weeks of triple and will be doing my 6 mo followup in a couple of months, this is nerve wracking. I am also struck by the number of people who were clear 3 mo post and not 6 mo post (my doc didnt do a 3 mo post viral load). Many of the new clinical trials are only reporting 12 week post viral load results. People who go through that should def. test 6 months post it seems.....

I was thinking about you, barbbey, when reading and writing in this thread. I agree that 12 weeks post (SVR12) is really not good enough as far as trial results/success. Six months seems to be the real marker. However, these pharmas are in such a rush to get the meds FDA approved and seems the FDA is okay with the 12 week post results. I'm sure you are nervous about your 6 month labs coming up. I really do believe though, that your doing 30 weeks was more than enough to slam and kill the virus. 48 weeks is OVERkill and just means prolonged suffering for the ones who are doing the treatment. I think you are gonna be SVR forever. What a warrior!

barbbey, I hope and believe you will be ok but I can certainly relate to the anxiety you must be feeling.

And Reminder- your post pertained to soc and triple and NOT my trial which not many have done. I don't know that what applies to soc/triple necessarily applies to my trial but I will never know as it's been discontinued so I'm quite certain I'll never get any more information about it.

The new......Nucleotide Polymerase Inhibitor Sofosbuvir
The old....Protease Inhibitors Telaprevir and Boceprevir

No panic folks, the new Polymerase based Inhibitor works very differently. Shorter duration, lesser side issues. All the new drugs will we based on this model. As you all read about the virus is eradicated in a very short amount of time. 3-4 days and most trial guys were Undie, so the 12 weeks of time is very sufficient.

I am so glad I didn't do triple. I was so close. Researched and compared Victrelis vs. Incivek for months.. Even my doctor wasn't sure which I should do. I scoured the internet and every hcv forum I could find. I created extensive Excel spread sheets comparing the pros and cons of each.

Yup, I was so very lucky.

"This virus is not the hide out kind, as it shows it fangs instantaneously.The best example of this the people who couldn't complete or did and the virus resisted the medications.I have never read anywhere yet this virus would made a comeback after the 6 months Undie test, after this miserable treatment completed..I heard it yes, for 1 single patient and the doctors were clueless why in Miami."

Well, I wasn't treated in Miami and it happened to me more than once dude!!! There you go again!!! Giving out bad information!!!

Bika,

You need to read way more if you believe or have not ever read that nobody has relapsed after they were SVR for more than 6 months except for the one person you referred to because that simply is NOT TRUE!

Take me for example... TWICE I was SVR for over 5 years and I relapsed TWICE!! And I treated if I remember correctly, more than NINE TIMES TOTAL!!!

Out of those treatments, I went SVR for more than six months I think it was SIX or SEVEN TIMES!!!

And I'm not the only one that has relapsed after being SVR for over SIX months more than once!!! There many of us out there Bika!!!

BTW, it is a Cancer pre-curser for Hepatocellular Carcinoma as are most viruses being pre-cursers to various forms of cancer...
You need to read way, way, more than what little you already have read!!!

YOU DO NEED TO READ SOME MORE BIKA!!!

Finally, there are 3 major types of DAA's currently in development and some are already in use... They are:

1.) Protease Inhibitors

2.) Polymerase Inhibitors - can be divided into two distinct complex categories - nucleoside NS5B inhibitors and non-nucleotide NS5B inhibitors.

3.) NS5A Inhibitors

Here's a reference article for you to read and to get educated:

http://www.natap.org/2013/HCV/010813_02.htm

Hopefully, you'll learn something from it!!!

Henry

I was a non-responder to triple. Did triple for 3 months, then doc said to stop. It was not working. I had double resistant variants! Those 3 months (& the subsequent 12 months following) were the WORST time of my life. Yeah, itchy, burning ass, sores on body, hair falling out, utterly exhausted 24/7 & crying spells on an almost regular basis!

Fast forward 14 months after ceasing triple. Took the Sofosbuvir & Ledipasvir combo with NO Riba & NO side effects for a mere 12 weeks. One pill a day. What could be easier?

So far: SVR4 & SVR12. Will test Nov 1 for SVR24.

So who cares what the REAL damned cure rate is for triple? Not me! Even if it was guaranteed triple would work, I wouldn't touch that stuff with a 10 foot pole. That cure is worse than the disease!

Bottom line: WAIT FOR NEW DRUGS TO COME OUT IF YOU CAN. You'll be glad you did.

Cheers!
Hepcat

Edit: I wrote that I was SVR for 5 years twice...

That's not correct... I was SVR once for about 5 years once, and twice overall I was SVR for over two years...

So, one time I went SVR for about 5 years and one time I went SVR for over two years equaling twice for over two years...
Fat Fingered Syndrome strikes again!! My Bad! ;>) ;>) ;>)

Respectfully,
Henry

As i have said it i am NOT worrying. The UM hospital did many of the trials with the triple treatment. The nurse assistant told me , for years as the trial went on, only one person who have passed the 6 month SVR marked relapsed. They were clueless why, and very often the guy traveled with them to conferences.All people i know of on the website on DS whom relapsed beyond the 6 months time.

All people i know of relapsed between 1-3 months after completion, or never got SVR so they stopped the treatment.
On the old SOC was a very different scenario, as the SVR vas considered to be 1 year, and some people do relapsed even beyond 2 years , it is a well known factor.But the test didn't go lower than 45IU/ml, and the virus was there but not active, as they have autopsy's form years back where they fins live virus in the liver cells but not in the blood stream. And when the treatment not working it is not working, even after 11 try's. The reason is the same type of virus is still in present and will be present , regardless of liver transplant.If it didn't worked 2 times it will not work at the third try either. That is the reason we have today a different type of treatment. If anyone heard of people whom relapsed after 6months on the new treatment please post the article. We would love to read it!