I wouldn't take a premarital counseling course, I don't feel I would need it. All the things you did list plus some, stbxh and I discussed before we got married (31 years ago), we discussed those things before we even talked of getting married.

Most of the things listed my partner and I have discussed also. Some of the things we have no need to discuss (having/not having children for instance). I would never make the decision to live with or marry someone without discussing everything from A to Z.

As for input from family or children, nope. I feel I have a good head on my shoulders and am 100% capable of making the decision on my own, I don't need input from anyone else. I have never been *blinded* by love where I didn't have all the information I needed and I didn't see or I choose not to see red flags.

It might be useful.. but people change and you can't answer questions about events that are yet to happen... Well you can answer the questions.. but what you might want to do can be very different than what you actually do when faced with a situation.
I think making lists of who is going to do what chore.. what vacations you will take would actually hurt a relationship. Life should be lived one day at a time ... I can see some rigid couple fighting about it now... " 15 years ago you vowed to take out the trash" lol
"What.. you're pregnant?? Line 15 clearly states that we would not have children... " lol..
The truth is that nobody is perfect and there isn't anyone who will make a perfect lifemate.. with the rare exception of a true monster who nobody in the world could live with.. all marriages could work if people would learn to compromise.

I agree with much of your post Brightside. The future can't be predicted and what might once have been agreed on could need to be changed down the road, where to live, how many kids you want, etc. We originally wanted 4 kids, I changed my mind and stopped after 2 kids and had my tubes tied.

When stbxh and I discussed chores, we didn't make a list of *his* and *her* chores, we agreed that the house, yard, kids, cooking, taking care of the pets would be both our responsibilities. Same with my partner except for the kids part, we won't be having kids together and there's no possibility of that. lol

I do believe there needs to be a discussion on all the things listed before marraige so you both have an idea that you're on the same page with your wants, needs, desires and goals. I would have never married a man who said he didn't want kids. He might change his mind down the road and want kids but since I knew I wanted kids, I wouldn't take that chance that maybe he'll decide to have kids. I would never marry a man who was in debt up to his ears and lived beyond his means.

I don't agree with your statement that "all" marriages can work if people would learn to compromise. It takes much more than compromise for a marriage to work. H and I are getting divorced after 31 years of marriage and it has nothing to do with either of us not compromising. People change and feelings change, just like everything else can change. There are no guarentees in life.

Right, but the divorce rate is sky high. If people had really meant it when they took the vows of marriage.. the divorce rate wouldn't be as high as it is.... I guess that's a No Brainer though
Seriously... read the vows again.. yikes! Those are some scary vows! lol
I agree people change and feelings change & I don't believe people should stay in a marriage if they feel that they are miserable... but I also believe that in MOST cases people are as miserable as they make their minds up to be. I'm saying MOST
cases... since the topic of the post is the high divorce rate.
Have you ever seen the movie with Demi Moore and she is trying to become a NAVY SEAL ?? during the grueling training there is a bell to ring when you want to drop out... anyway.. I just think most marriages fail because one or both partners decide to ring that bell.... marriage is difficult, it is human nature to want our own way and human nature to blame others.
I think it's so funny when I hear people say.. " I am looking for the right person" .. there really isn't a "right person" without compromise and kindness after the romance has ran through all of it's phases.. and bitterness piles up.. there will be a lot of "Bell ringers"

Hi,

Thank you both for your insights!

Many individuals approach a partnership with real clarity, with great thoughtfulness. They discuss the matters of importance, (no exacting list, no iron clad contract) nothing that can't be amended or adapted as they grow together.

I believe that people change a great deal with time passing. What you thought at 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 and so on deepens your life knowledge, your experience, your wisdom.

I'm not trying to suggest that love not be key. I don't think that anyone knows ALL the answers to their life. Nor do I mean to suggest that someone should be rigidly held accountable for something they discussed when they were 20.

I am wondering if couples were willing to sit down together and talk to a neutral 3rd party might find they can learn more about each other. I don't want to forsake spice, passion, excitement, joy, laughter in any way. I'm just wondering if individuals/couples might benefit from this.

I have spoken to so many people over the years, and have my own experiences with relationships. So many of these different areas that impact a couple become a source of bitterness, anger, hurt and resentment. Many do not discuss these things in any depth. They think that love is all they need. I'm just suggesting that people take the time to stop and think about their values, their dreams in a realistic manner.

Some people give more thought to a college course, a driving test, learning to sky dive or scuba dive than they do to the promises they make or voice agreement to when they are starry eyed... without giving it any real in depth discussion.

I'm just suggesting that a lot of heartache might be avoided if people think things through carefully and have the discussion.