Hi Nutsandbolts. Thank you so much. It's exactly what I needed to hear today. My step daughter spent the night and is going to the hearing. She lives one hour away and I went and picked her up because she has no other way of getting there. While here last night she started calling her dad by his first name and when a friend came by and I walked away, she told our friend she was done with my husband and I and that a social worker said we can spend all the money we want on attornies, but will never get her kids. The truth is she's right. For all intents and purposes she appears to be doing well. she's in school, has section 8 housing, WIC you name it. I suspect shes doing prescription drugs, but last night my friend said she doesn't think she's doing any drugs. All we have going for us is that the kids have lived with us since birth. They visit her one to two nights a week. Las night I went in her room to talk to her and she pretty much told me that after court today if the judge rules against us, she's taking her kids. Funny how she has the right to call them "her kids".

The sad thing is that, if she gets the kids and is abusing prescription drugs, she will go off the rails sooner or later. And she will put the children through more anxiety, and perhaps danger (depending how bad her addiction gets).

Please let us know how your hearing goes -- we'll all be thinking of you and saying prayers that the right thing is done!!!!!

Diana-crossing my fingers for you today. Praying and lighting a candle too!

Any news? I hope it went well for you.

Bad news. We were denied again and now we have to go to mediation. The judge gave all the air time to our step daughter. Didn't ask us for our opinion once. He was about to grant temporary guardianship and then he stopped and asked our step daughter if she approved. She said she did not and preferred not to have a legal arrangement, but would rather continue to have an informal arrangement which was working really well for "her". Of course it is. We have no leg to stand on legally, she dictates when she wants the kids and when she wants them picked up, and by the way, bring milk, pampers, snacks and meals. She told the judge that she is a very capable mother who can take care of her own kids (really?), she went on to say that she has them Thursday through Sunday (NOT!) and that the schedule worked great. The truth is she has had them 40 nights in the last 9 months. They have been with her for a total of 1.5 months and with my husband and I for 7.5 months, the judge then took back granting temp guardianship and said, it seems to be working very well, let's leave things as they are. Right after we left the courthouse she got on the phone with her ex-convict boyfriend and starting talking about packing as soon as she got home, of course I was driving her home which is one hour away (two hour round trip for me). Then she looks over and saids "yes! I'm having a weekend getaway with my boyfriend", didn't even let me know that she would not be taking the kids with her. After all isn't her schedule Thursday - Sunday, what a joke, I couldn't believe it. I called my attorney after and asked, is the judge going to let my stepdaughter make the final decision about general guardianship too? Because if that's the case, I may as well throw in the towel.

I'm so sorry it didn't go your way. I'm not sure the whole story as to why the kids have been with you so long but if she is saying she can take care of them, why not let her? Or rather force her to step up and take them full-time. It sounds to me like the arrangement works for her because she can be a part-time Mother and go off and have weekend getaways and such because she knows you have the kids. What if suddenly she was forced to have them? She might think twice about refusing to give you guardianship.

If it were me I'd be real tempted after court today to say OK, you win...here are your kids. Take them and I will drop you off at home one last time. Then take her and her kids home and that would be that. If you felt the kids were at risk you could call CPS to see if they would check in on them. But I bet her having them fulltime wouldn't last long.

I just wouldn't let her have control over you like this anymore. I'd put my foot down and say look if you are such a wonderful Mother then you take care of them full time. You buy all the supplies and YOU find your own rides to take them to the doctor, etc., I wouldn't enable her part-time Motherhood any longer. Even as hard as that would be for the kids sake, I just would have to say no more! If she doesn't want to give you guardianship after all these years then let her do IT ALL, ALL BY HERSELF from now on.

Hi GrannyApple. I agree, but it's so much more complicated. She hasn't had the kids part time, she has them an average of 1.5 days a week. She's also living with an ex-convict who was in prison for 12 years for nearly killing a woman, I suspect but I'm not sure she might be doing prescription drugs. As I type this I think you're right, maybe handing the kids over to her would be the end of this. Now we have to go to mediation and then on to a trial. I might consider just handing the kids over.

GrannyApple. The kids have been with us since birth because she was homeless at one point, evicted, lived with friends, etc, etc. At least she had the presence of mind to have done what was best for her kids. The truth is the woman has issues, lots of them, she lies all the time, steals, and has been arrested for stealing, she was also arrested for smoking pot in public, she's just skating by.

If you don't want to call her bluff regarding letting her take the kids on fulltime, then what I would do is ask the court to appoint a Guardian Ad Litem for the children. Their job would be to find what's in the best interest of the children. They would interview you, the Mother, investigate the circumstances, her living arrangements, who's she's living with, etc., and make a recommendation to the court regarding the guardianship of the children.

Does the Mother not want to take them on fulltime? It sounds like she threatened to take them but I also sense that she wants the convenience of having everything stay as it is now.

Do you have authority to take them to the doctor, enroll them in school, sign papers should they need emergency treatment, etc.,? That alone would be a good argument for having guardianship.

I think for the amount of time they have lived with you a GAL would have to take that into high consideration. The GAL would look into her past history (criminal, drugs, etc.,) as well.

All I know is if you don't take some control of this situation, the Mother will be running this show until these children are of age. Do you want that? That's a lot of stress and worry. You shouldn't have to worry about her threatening to take them.

Also are you under any obligation to give her rides to court or mediation? If not, I would tell her under no certain terms that she is to find her own transportation from now on. There is no reason that you have to be her taxi. If she is such a responsible Mother, let her be responsible to get herself to these things that regard her children!

Grannyapple you make a lot of sense. Her constant threat of taking them is what got us to court . The oldest gd would cry all the way to her mothers screaming and crying, biting her nails till they bled because she didn't want to go to her mothers. We hated leaving her and decided that we had to protect them at all cost. We went to 2 attorneys and they both advised us to go for probate guardianship. They said that the fact that the children had been with us all of their lives gave us a good chance at getting guardianship. So we went for it. The next step is to go through an investigation and mediation. Our next court date is December 9, 2011. Apparently the courts look closely at who the child has bonded with, that is what we have going for us. The truth is that I don't know if she wants her kids. I would have to say no. If she really wanted them she would have them by now. She has section 8 housing, gets cash aid, food stamps, etc. What's keeping her from taking them? I really don't know. Even if she wanted her kids, my husband and I fear for their safety, we called CPA and they said they couldn't do anything about it. But you're right. I have to take control back and filing for guardianship was the first step towards that. And, no I don't have to give her a ride to court, you're right that she should get herself there.

I'm assuming you've gone through guardianship? was it probate or family court? Do you have guardianship?

Diana, I'm so sorry to hear that the so-called "justice" system failed once again.

I have to admit that I'm leaning toward Grannyapple's suggestion. If things hadn't gone our way at our hearing I know my husband and I would have said "here are the kids, Pinky -- you wanted them, you got them." Then we would have waited for the next crisis, when it would have become obvious that the kids needed to be elsewhere.

I know, it could put the children at risk. But we did have the advantage that Pinky's ex boyfriend was a serious tattle-tale. He called us constantly to complain about Pinky, so we would have known exactly what was going on - and he would never have allowed them to be harmed (his ONLY redeeming value).

It's so frustrating to see these high and mighty judges pretending they know what's best, when they don't have a clue.

Why wasn't your attorney permitted to say anything?

Diana - sorry to hear how it went. I have to agree with granny. A GAL would be a good thing. I would also let her know that since ypu have no legal responsibility to provide for the kids she can pay some type of support or babysitting fee to you guys for the time that you have the kids since she is such a responsible mother and enjoys the arrangement so much.

Some of these judges need to come walk in our shoes and the shoes of these babies before they make a decision.

HI Sara. I"m learning a lot about this process. As you know when you fill out the paperwork for Guardianship you have to include a statement as to why you think the kids should be with you. This is the guardians opportunity to tell their side of the story. The first time we went to court on Sept 2 we didn't get in front of a judge we filed for temporary guardian ship sat in a court room while a judge in his chambers reviewed the paperwork, we were denied. This hearing was to sit in front of a judge, the way our attorney explained it was that since the judge has our statement this was our sd's day in court, he allowed her to speak the entire time. Because the investigation hasn't happened the judge's hands are tied and he can only grant a temporary guardianship if both parties agreed. This is how it was explained. Our next hearing is on Dec 8th after the investigation.

HI Mystery, yes I agree that some of these judges need to walk in our shoes. I couldn't believe it when he asked her basically for her permission to grant the temporary and then proceeded to say (after she said no), yes, let's keep things the way they are since they're working so well. Really! I know I'm to blame for being such a push over, but this camels back is about to break.

I'm sorry to hear things did not go well at court. I read what Grannyapple wrote and have to agree. I would also make the lie the mother told in court accountable.

Do the children go to school? How can she have them on Thursdays if she lives an hour away from you and I assume the school?
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On Thursday drive the kids over to Mom's. But make Mom bring them to school on Fridays and back to you on Sunday. I Would start this week coming, since she is out on a weekend of fun. Place a call to her and leave voice message if needed today or Sunday, Let her know it's her job to find transportation. You want to give her time to find the transportation. If she calls and says she can't find a ride for the return or for School...Give her the phone number of a local taxi company. In AZ children cannot ride in a taxi without an adult. So your daughter will have to ride and pay for both ways. I'm sure one time of doing this, she will find a ride. When you go into mediation, The drop off trips on Thursdays will show you are contributing 50% of the transportation which is reasonable. And the minutes will show that your daughter stated Thursday thru Sunday the children are with her. Make sure you document everything!!!!

Don't be a TAXI for SD..She's a grown women who needs to find her own transportation, Kids, court, Mediation... These are her kids and if she is interested, she will find away to get where she needs to be, without you picking her up!

If you decide to let her be Mom, now would be the time to do it, while you have mediation and courts on the schedule, this way if she falls, she will have fallen in the time frame needed without having to make a new case.