Budsee - stop blaming yourself - i know it is hard but i truly believe these estranged daughters (not all) but the ones who pull it out of the blue are having some real issues with their own lives. my husband and i did the very best we could - we have wonderful sons, wonderful relationships with our entire family, never had issues with our families, etc. My daughter came at us with pure hate and anger. She felt jealous of her brothers, claimed we loved them more than her, accused us of not paying more attention to her needs, etc. If you asked anyone that knew us as parents and our daughter they are shocked and appalled by her actions. There was nothing more or less wrong with our being good parents - we are a normal, middle income family who raise three children, sent them to good schools, college, had both our family around us - strong family unit. my husband and i would never have hurt our parents this way - never treated them with such rudeness - all i can say is pray, keep telling yourself - you did the best you could under whatever circumstances - you did not beat her, hit her, burn her, get drunk and swear, steal, bring strange men into your home and bed - i mean really. did you yell, maybe yes, did you make some mistakes yes but should it totally ruin your and their lives? No mothers are human - of course we got frustrated as with any day to day undertaking especially raising children who try parents patients.
Of course there were misunderstanding but really at 40+ they have to grow up and accept reality - nothing is perfect - to forgive is just more than they can do - it is truly similar to a sickness without their "hate or revenge" they might have to find out who they really are. my husband and i miss our daughter and now that she has a daughter (we have never seen) it is unbearable but she is so stuck in her own revenge (which she will deny saying she is in a much better place without her "entire" family) she cannot see the trees for the forest. She does not have the courage or strength to stand up and forgive! She say she has forgiven, holds not grudges, but actions speak louder than words. Please take care of yourself - i guess we have to forgive them and move on hoping that one day they will find their way home.
YOU take care of yourself - it takes one day at a time (i am not fond of that saying) but it is so true. Warm regards.

Thanks Kathy 1028....my oldest daughter I have not seen in 17 years, so I really do not know if she has children. The thing I feel so bad about now is the fact I called my youngest daughter at the hospital, cause I was so very excited and happy about my new grandson,and I should not had done that. I was so fortunate to see on face book pictures of my youngest daughter, whom I also have not seen in so many years, nor have they tried to get in touch with me... I do not have their phone nos, so I could never call them.... but I had face book. Now, after I made the call to her, she took everything off face book...I found this to be so hurtful....and also the phone no. she gave to me that is out of service. So... my ex husband wins again... he has our 2 daughters, that worship him, and his other 2 daughters from his marriage now. Saw it coming, but never thought my girls would let me go... tearing up as I type this, guess cause it is so new to me. I will never see my grand son. I have 2 sisters that are so toxic, so they are playing a role in this also. My sisters were in charge of my mom, while she was in a nursing home, and they threatened so many people whom took care of Mom. They were told not to give to me any info when I called to see how Mom was doing, and yet I was able to visit her, cause they could not stop me from doing so. When my Mom passed away at the nursing home I was living out of state at the time, so I could only call to see how she was. Well....I called , and I was told that they could not tell me due to the fact my sisters said under no circumstances can they release any info to me....so I got on my computer and found that my Mom had passed away, and had already been buried...whew, that was tough. I have always been put down by them... Iam the middle daughter. I mention them , due to the fact that they are in constant contact with my daughters,,,so between my ex and my sisters....they have taken over. I have been able to let go for quite a time now, but the wound has been opened again, when I am not allowed to not only see my grand son, but also not beig able to see photos on face book of him. I will continue to be strong and when I see how many others are living this also, I know that Iam not alone. I hope that more people will chat with me , and also you will get back to me.....thank you

Bubsee, i can hardly believe what i read regarding your family of ex husband, sisters and two daughters. No one deserve that! I will pray for you - keep your spirits up - don't let them win! You are better than that - take care of yourself. Make sure you are good to yourself.
Write a list of all your positive traits - no matter how small.
Pray and meditate even if every 30 mins or hour. Read something positive and then relax with it making it your own - picture what you read - i am doing a St. Ignatius Retreat - each and every day we are given a reading which we precede with an exercise of sensing, visualizing. It is amazing how much better i feel - it takes a lot determination and dedication - it is always tempting to skip the exercise but when i am done i am so glad i did it. i don't know your religion but whatever it is - go to it and embrace it. What is happening is bigger than one can handle alone - and alone you are not. Hope i did not overstep my boundries talking about religion. It seems the only path to take. These trials and tribulations are all part of life.

Hi Kathy, you certainly sound so strong with what you are dealing with. I do think your daughter will come home , and be close to you again. I have had issues with my sisters for years, I have always dealt with their evil ways. Actually I just try hard not to think about them...toxic people are bad for us all!! My daughters idolize their Dad and I really have accepted this, and have let it go. Until of course, I find again, news on the computer, my youngest one , has just had a baby. Funny thing, I do not make a habit of going on facebook often, but that evening , the day my grandson was born, I had such a pull to check out her facebook page, and update myself on what might be going on with her.....never thought I would see her in delivery, holding her baby....never knew she was pregnant. I would like you to know that you are fine, speaking to me about religion. I know in my heart and soul, the lord walks beside me and when it seems to be a tougher day than usual...he is there to carry me. I do pray, and that indeed gives me strenghth. I only wish I could learn to meditate.When I do go out for a walk in the neighborhood, I walk for about an hour and a half....during that time I pray. Iam certain that many of us, going through this, feel so alone at times, the holidays are tough. I do have so many blessings in my life. Can any one help me with meditating... just being able to clear my mind would be so great...and to relax. Hope to hear from you again Kathy, and any one that would like to join the talk. "Thanks"

thanks Budsee but i probably sound stronger than i really am - i just keep working at it with all the ups and downs - not always successful. My husband is a true support and of course dealing with his own hurt - he has not seen our daughter in 3 years - i have only seen her once during that time as well which was a very unpleasant experience.
how do you go on your daughter's facebook? i am not allowed access to my daughter's facebook - i don't know how to access it without her knowledge. let me know how you do it. Although sometimes i agree it is more hurtful but at least we know they are alright if we know a little about their life.
you are doing a great job - 17 years is a lot to deal with - but as you say HE is carrying you. think of all of the good people in your life to reaffirm yourself. Fortunately i have two sons and their families who have no patience with their sister - they are so disappointed with her - our family including cousins, aunts, uncles are sick about her - our daughter will not even consider anyone's advice unless they totally agree with her that she has horrible parents. Which no one understands - it is beyond any comprehension - we are glad my mother who adored her is not alive to see this. her other grandmother is sick about it but our daughter will not listen to her either. NO ONE CAN TALK TO HER WITHOUT HER GETTING OUT OF CONTROL. oh well - i give her to God and pray! What else can be done? I have gone to psychiatrist, counseling, doctors, priests, support groups, you name it and i have tried it but i am the only one that can accept what i cannot change. keep up your spirits - know that you are not alone!!!! none of us are

Hi Kathy, I was able to get on my daughter's face book page, due to the fact, she posted everything for the public to see. Now.... since I made the phone call to her, she no longer posts publicly. My youngest daughter has been very mean towards me for years now, and I allowed her to do so, so she would at least keep in touch with me. Back when she got married in 2009... we spoke maybe...a few times a year, and she never told me that she was going to marry. So...I will continue with my life as I have for years ... I tried for some contact when I saw the photo of my grandbabie, and I was spoke to, as if I was a stranger. I definitely opened that wound.....STUPID thing to do.....just did not think.... too excited and happy as I looked at the picture of her and her new born. I know that you are hurting without your daughter also, not being in your life.... you have your sons and they are great sons... I am sure they are concerned about you. Who would had ever guessed it would be like this. One day at a time Kathy, and stay strong. People say, when they have children of their own , they will come back into our lives. I do not think that will ever happen for me, not with my ex husband and siblings poisoning their minds. I was out shopping yesterday, and I saw a 7 week old baby boy, and he was a darling, then my mind wanders....thinking.....if only I could visit my grand son , and cradle the baby in my arms,kiss him and tell him how much I love him. I still love my daughters, and I always will...cause Im their Mom. Let me know how you are. Easter will be here soon , my favorite time of the year. I also think that before long, the baby will be christened, and I will not be there...definitely hurts....how can our daughters be so spiteful? Keep in touch Kathy.. we are strong.

Hi Budseet

Typical that these girls can keep so much information from us. i get the same sick feeling every time I see a baby girl - i think of my granddaughter. so sad and guess what she is teaching her child - first not to respect her mother - or be afraid that if she (my granddaughter) does something wrong her mother will disown her. these grandchildren will be asking if they have a mommy! I can hardly imagine how she is going to answer that.
fortunately i have 6 other grandchildren which are very close to my husband and me. unfortunately they are out of town but i travel frequently to see them.
Also my son brought my oldest granddaughter (10) to spend spring break with us. A whole week to have her alone. We had a wonderful time and she was so excited! We did everything you can think of.....filled my heart! And my husband was just delighted.
My husband aches since he did not get to walk his only daughter down the aisle. He had it planned in his mind ever since she went off to college. Of course no one was invited to their wedding - not a family member. No one wanted to go anyway once they realized how she was planning it in secrecy!
Of course we will always love our daughters - - although i don't think mine is very likeable - she is not a very nice person - very judgemental, mean spirited, unforgiving, and any other trait you can think of. I often wonder if she is bipolar or manic depressive - something is emotionally wrong with her. a doctor friend of ours says there could be a personality disorder but without fully evaluating her he is not sure - but most of these cases where young adults claim unfounded abuse by parents can be attributed to a mental or emotional illness. It becomes an obsession to them.
You keep up your spirits - pray - be nice to yourself and be around only people that you like and they like you. We don't need anyone else giving us any negative feedback. I hope you have some good friends to rely on.
p.s. not a stupid thing to want to see your new grandson - she is the immature, childish, one! NOT YOU. Don't beat yourself up!

Hang in there!!! Kathy

Hi Kathy, Just thought I would drop by and ask how you are doing these days. I do hope you taking good care of yourself. My husband and I, have sold our home and are looking at another one to purchase. Found one that needs some fixing up, but the neighborhood is real nice. Just the thought of moving....lots to do.I can not lift on furniture, so we will need to have help. Kathy, do you spend Easter with your sons and their families? Drop me a note when you have the chance to do so.

wow. i wonder why wit kids who have a lot of love end up acting like this sometimes? maybe its best to leave her alone she may or may not come around.

@phoenixmoon, love the name. i live in Scottsdale, AZ. i never see anyone on here in the groups from AZ. :)

Reading your story is like reading mine. EXACTLY. Its been 5 yrs I have been estranged with my 31 yr old daughter and now I have a 2 yr old granddaughter. There is no contact with the ENTIRE family. The wedding situation sounds exact. And our family doted loved and spoiler her also. Her being an only child. First granddaughter & grt granddaughter & only girl among male cousins. Its like someone has flipped a switch. We DO NOT know her. Shes anger bitter mean and hurtful to everyone all the time. She says its our fault for all her unhappiness. And without us in her life her life is great! My heart tells me different. I am also in counseling now for 4 yrs. I miss my daughter NOT the girl she has become. How did this get like this and when does this stop?

I cannot be negative, it's agains the guidelines here at DS.

Stop trying to parent her (that horse bolted a long, long time ago) and offer to go to family mediation with the mediator of her choice.

There are issues here and they are not all caused by your daughter and the alleged pandering to her as a child.

If she feels you and your husband are horrible to her and her brother too, the very least you can do for yourself is to aknowledge that your perspective on the realities of life are not the be all and end all and that her perspectives are equally skewed by the tensions and underlying emotional disstresses.

I wish you well and hope that the road ahead is an open and honest one in which all parties involved in building respectful and basic relationships can benifit.

These letters from grieving parents sound like my family.
Here is a letter my daughter wrote me at age 18.

January 26 2:15 AM
Dear Mama
Hi, I just thought I'd write you a letter to remind you that I appreciate you immensely. I guess I should tell you more often since you really do deserve it. I tell you that all the time, but I thought it would be nice if I told you why. You are a wonderful beautiful loving mother who truly puts my well being before anything for yourself, and that's a lot. I appreciate you more than anything in the world!! On top of everything you are my "BEST FRIEND".
You don't steal my boyfriends, try to make me jealous, spread rumors about me, how much better can it get. I really have it good. I'm sorry if I get cranky once in a while. You get cranky too but I forgive you.
So next time we have a disagreement and I say a whole bunch of nasty words to you, read this letter to reassure yourself about how much I love you, because you are the best thing in the world.
PS. I canceled my plans with ------- tomorrow so we could spend Sunday together. I love you.
Luv ------

Who would ever guess that this same daughter would walk in to the kitchen four years later, call me "a Nothing, Nobody without her voice and face", take "entitlement" to $40,000.00 of our joint company assets (something "owed" a 22 year old child) and leave me stuck to pay off $40,000.00 in liabilities with nothing to show for my 3 years of full time effort, tell me that hurting me was "justified" in the interests of "me, my, mine", that love for me didn't factor when it stood between her and getting what she wanted, ("Nothing personal just business she said). When I tried to talk to her about this, she informed me that "If I didn't shut up, she wouldn't be around to wipe my ass when I got old".
I thought about her offer for about one second then decided to walk away. I recognized this as an offer to partake in an abusive relationship. Abusers always try to silence their victims. What abusers fear most is exposure and communication.

She has since resolved her avoidance of accountability. I am now an abusive parent. When I sent her a copy of this letter which she wrote me at age 18, she stated that: at the time, she didn't realize that she was being abused".

Yes, I'm sure many parents here can relate to "Smear Campaigns". Scapegoating makes it easy for people to avoid reconnecting with their Authentic "Self".

The definition of Addiction is: The separation from :Self"
When you've disconnected from your authentic "Self" (truth, honesty, reality) you've basically become separated from your soul.

Good luck trying to reason with an addict. Addicts are irrational, illogical, unreasonable, did I mention "Denial" is present and disordered thinking is evident?

If our children are acting intoxicated, it's because they are. Addicts lack empathy. They are "right" (self righteous), justified and "projecting" while they share their "False Concerns". Narcissism is a drug, so is Anger. OCD and Pure O can play a huge part in your adult child's behavior. Try doing battle with "FALSE MEMORY OCD". We didn't attend our daughter's "invitation" to her wedding as guests: wearing the label "Abusive Parents". I'm glad we had the presence of mind to maintain our Self Respect. Today our daughter is not only lying to other's but she's lying to herself.

All I can say to parents is, don't beat yourself up for your adult child's behavior. I was lucky. My daughter must have known she was disappearing into the False Self. I at least have this letter to remind myself that I was a good mother who's daughter loved her immensely. I could lie to myself and maintain this now sick relationship by pretending that this dark soul is my daughter but by doing so, I would be feeding this sick situation. (enabling and co-depending). I would be accepting a ticket to hell.

My daughter is estranged but I'm the one who pushed away from her. It's bad enough that she's lost, no point in all of us getting lost in her dark woods. I'm waiting for my daughter to find her way back to love and being loving. As a mother, I was responsible for getting her to adulthood safely and successfully. As an adult, she's ultimately responsible for her soul. As much as it hurts, as much as I love her, as much as I want to jump in an "Fix' it, "Fix" her, I am powerless. As parents we all know how that feels.

This is an OLD thread that just got bumped, so the original ones may never read this, but I was getting VERY angry and just needed to step in.

Yes, there are people out there who are narcs or have other mental illnesses/personality disorders. But guess what? It happened, somehow. Do a little research and many times, it's the upbringing.

It's not natural for a child to cut off family members, so did you ever for a moment think it WAS the family??? Start reading the threads on here.

Many times, the family who gets cut off have NO realization of their dysfunction. Did you ever ASK what you did?

One of you (forget which of the yellow flowers) admitted that you worked too much and never was there. Yet you twist it and say that she's just ungrateful. Guess what? She's entitled to have the little girl inside her be pissed off. And I bet it's your same attitude now that alienates you from her.

My mother is the SAME WAY. She wears her motherdom as a badge of honor. How she sacrificed for her kids, gave up her drams, blah, blah, blah. Means NOTHING to me because she REFUSES to see my point of view and she's deluded about the reality of the past. (Want to know more, sift through my posts on this forum.)

I'm not trying to be nasty to you all, but if you REALLY want a relationship with your kids, write them a letter if you can't call them and be WILLING TO ASK them what it was you did or didn't do and then SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO THEM! DON'T DEFEND ANYTHING. Just let them know you HEAR and UNDERSTAND and then say this one thing- SORRY. And MEAN IT. Not a passive aggressive, "I'm sorry you feel this way." But I'M SORRY because you weren't a better parent in the way they needed. Skip the "I did the best I could." Because that's a cop out. Just be SORRY you caused them PAIN.

Then ask what you can do to CHANGE NOW to have a relationship.

I TRIED to do that with my parents after years of an on again, off again situation and guess what? They FAILED on EVERYTHING ABOVE. So I finally killed them in my mind. They are now officially dead to me. And I finally have peace.

So, the sooner you STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM and start OWING YOUR PIECE, then MAYBE you have a shot of a relationship. Get off your high horses and LISTEN to your children and be willing to CHANGE whatever it is they say the need, since they obviously think you didn't do it right the first time.

Whew. I needed that. Wounds go deep. Really, I am trying to help you by typing this to perhaps jolt you ladies into reality and giving you some tips on how to get back your girls. If my mother could do the above, we'd at least have a rudimentary, polite relationship. But she's so damaged, I just gave up. DON'T BE MY MOTHER!

I wish someone reads this and it makes them at least think about what I wrote.

Peace.

Okay Deli. I made a pot of coffee for this. First cup down. Second on the way.

To the others here, I feel you. But I also feel what your daughters have done. June Cleaver aside, she was a fictional character.

Growing up as a middle child, I felt the unsaid things as much as the said things very well. Being called a liar and punished severely when I tried to tell, ask for help. So much so that I couldn't speak anymore. I just stayed as far back off the radar as I could, watching out for anything heading my way. Trying to hide in plain sight..
Daddy's little girl was my older sister, never touched the way he did me. But none the less he was the lesser of two evils. My mother's denial and punishment was harder on me and her own behavior towards me unforgivable. My memories are clear, not cloudy of these things, it is all that I have in terms of a childhood that looked good for a bystander at a distance.

The reason for "Dad" being the lesser of to evils? He didn't shade his abuse with love. I could see when to duck. Mom taught me "I love you with all my heart"," I have suffered so much for you" and "Goodnight, God bless you", were coverups for her insecurities that let her ignore me. A prelude to her undermining my self as person. A girl insecure in how to participate with the world. That leaving us in the care of an uncle that searched for me with a Zippo lighter, and taking me into my parents room was not her doing. Even when the story came over and over to her, she eventually punished me for my lies and ostracized me. Because I was a visible dent in her "Motherhood" armor. I was payment for the care the uncle provided when my dad was hospitalized for Shell shock a few times. Also during the "Honeymoon" phase when they went out to show the world all was right again. His payment, me the sacrificial lamb.Their relationship was volatile, but if you asked her it was "passionate."
It ended in Divorce, she went on to marry two others and divorce them. Many times accusing me of "Coming on" to them, at 8 years old until 12. She never admitted to any of this. Or said I am sorry. Taught by example the two older brothers did the same as other men in the "Family" to me. She looked away.

Like many under my type of history, I sought a hero to take me away on a white stallion. Only to learn his armor was black with unresolved anger. Now at his disposal for the pain and humiliation, while presenting the "Great husband" face to the world. I gave him a daughter, a child he never dreamed he would ever have. I found out too late that this was my only contribution to his life, that he would kill for. Even me, if I took her away.

My first husband idolized our daughter, giving in, making me be the voice of discipline. Undermining me by giving her what she wanted as soon as I was out of the room. Also when she was out of the room, giving me destructive physical abuse. She denies remembering me when the bruises and pain could not be hid by any amount of makeup and pain meds. Wiped from her memory.

At thirty two following her fathers death she sued me, and won on a new interpretation of ERISA law that came into effect after the trial started. After I was made to testify to the abuses, after she lied in testimony to conversations that were had, because she brought them up. I was destryed, because the conversation came up when my husband was asked to change his beneficiaries to her, he said no. He had found out the damage had taken away my ability to have children, multiple miscarriages well into the second trimester. As well as the multiple breaks to my body that I was prevented from having medical attention. Because he would lose his daughter if it ever went to court.

I know that this is long. But it speaks to the reasons a child may not want to face or deal with a parent, a mother. BTW I did come back to my mother, when she was older. Still in denial of her part. But Cancer hitting her. I did not 'Forgive" I set it aside to care for her. That has also had a detrimental effect. Giving her the care I was denied.

Two sides of the coin.

Here's my two sides-

My mother's:

"I did everything for you. I was alone on the farm with your father and then you came along and you were my life. I played with you, took you to Girl Scouts, helped you with school projects. You were my best friend. You were all that I had and I was always there for you."

My side:

"You never stood up for me when Dad abused me, both emotionally and physically. If you really had loved me, you would have left Dad and protected the daughter whom you claim to have loved so much.

Her side:

"I was away at work when he hit you. I never knew. I was afraid to stand up to your father because I thought he'd yell it would make it worse."

My side:

"Really??? You had no idea what Dad was capable of, but you were too afraid to stand up to him? And you rather let ME be his play toy so it wouldn't be you? Nice."

So, before any of you start saying that your daughters are just selfish, maybe you should start digging to find out why they are so angry, why they've got EDs and addictions. The pain came from somewhere... Usually starts at home.