Well, down among the Bible Beaters, it seems there is back-sliding and then there is backsliding.

True story: A pedophile raised in a Christian home, got out of federal prison after successful therapy which convinced him that constructing and actually following a Safety Plan was the best way to actually protect the children he was attracted to and to also protect himself from re-offending and spending even more of his life behind bars.

He paroled back to a small town with an open-minded evangelical church that offered space for the court ordered group therapy for SO's in it's basement a couple of times a week and all Sat afternoon. Problem was that the church also held youth groups at the church on Sat afternoons and had a day care for working parents. No body seemed to put two and two together and see that those were not children exactly, they were triggers. After all the SO was "Saved by the blood."The SO objected to his PO re the location but was still required to go to the only SO therapy groups available in town. The man's therapist saw the problem but had no solution (after all a pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile right?) It's a mental illness just like homosexuality (but not homophobia.) right?

The church explanation was that anyone who was actually saved (actually this guy was 'saved' in Sunday school as a child and later again in prison) so he shouldn't be bothered by children any more anyway and the fact that he was bothered by being immersed in "triggers" simply meant the guy hadn't prayed, hadn't given himself over to Jesus completely . It wasn't their failure to understand it was his failure to pray the pedophile away (with their help and approval of course. Success stories are made not born.

But being immersed in an 'approved' environment crawling with triggers ("former" objects of his desire) was beginning to wear heavily on his Safety Plan so he tried to transfer to a large town in the same state. But getting the OK to transfer while on the registry required finding a job and a place to live and new 'therapy' groups and on and on...and the anxiety and fear and pressures of the situation complete with all the triggers got to be too much. He did not approach a child. Instead, he just lost it, was checked into a mental ward in the local hospital and shot full of tranquilizers.
(There he was visited by his pastor and members of the congregation who urged him to forsake drugs and join them in praying away the devil (or the pervert) If successful in giving his life completely over to Jesus this time he could come back to church and to the weekly therapy group in the church basement...His PO agreed. Once last chance.
I think any religious group (most any religion, conservative Muslim, observant Jewish, fundamentalist Catholic/ Evangelical Christian ) expects their protégés to conform to their religion's definition of successful "re-entry." So long as you are willing to become a poster child conforming to their understanding/ pre-conceived ideas of cured. They blame the "offender" as rejecting their deity and cast them out as choosing the devil and all his works instead. They pray and quote the Bible and apply their religious formulas.. But they don't give people credit/ respect for understanding more about themselves and what they personally need to do in order to protect themselves and others. .
Not matter the good intentions of church people, they don't seem to recognize that their religious tenants just might not give them a complete understanding of the problems. But then, they tried to bring him to Jesus didn't they? They opened their church to SO's. So who could blame them if he guy just somehow lost it? Backslid off the backside of polite society one again. Well, so to speak.

Now that is an interesting explanation and it sums up my feelings on organized religions too... such double-standards and tunnel vision, like they can't even see the forest for the trees.

Thank you for that...

I think that like other issues, i.e. same sex marriage, abortion, and death penalty to name a few, people use a selective reasoning to seemingly rationalize and justify oppressing specific classes of people. It's like the guy who goes to church and professes his Christianity, and then has a beer when church is over because for many religion is second to personal desires especially when such is widely condoned by the majority.

Legal and Janet,

You are both exactly correct.

Religion gives people a means to receive the faith needed to go on even in the most depressing conditions, and it is very effective. In that aspect, religion or faith is very important. But religion is a personal decision and needs to be kept personal.

Religion has no place in either the criminal justice system OR in government.

rewdiazepam

Those who want to use power to maintain their own one-up positions use a divide and conquer strategy that separates us all into different 'boxes', supports prejudice and finger pointing and uses fear to get us to join in black listing others. The tactic gives one 'boxed up" group the pre-conceived idea that they are 'better than' some other group (and makes them think they have the right to protect their own by labeling, blaming, shunning, abusing or even killing 'dangerous' non-conformists)

I have heard comments about creating new Registries (aka boxes) and even ideas of creating a single common registry of 'baddies' (aka: sinners) but if they decided to combine all the 'bad' people/ the 'evil doers" on one registry it would soon become obvious that there are more of us on various black lists (manipulated into fighting each other) than there are of them (doling out gold stars for producing 'acceptable behavior).

I think, we get so afraid of the collateral damage from being black listed, refused entry or even re-entry into some better-than-us group that we forget to take responsibility for deciding the ethical use of our own power. If we stop playing the game and behave in ways that mean we have earned self respect in our own eyes, if we begin to use the power we possess as human beings to protect the young and the vulnerable among us we have earned our own self respect and might even leave the world better for our having been here no matter what black list we inhabited and in spite of personal challenges.
Then, I would say, we have indeed risen above, used the power we had to become our better selves no matter where we imagine we might go in the next life. (Always assuming there is one.)

I grew up in a religious household, and I still have a soft spot in my heart for religious ritual (I am a sucker for a good, strong, traditional, liturgical service) and I attend a weekly church service.

The value for me in religion, though, is not necessarily in belief. I don't think there is a magical point one arrives at where if one believes the right things, says the right things, or worships in the correct fashion, that all their problems, addictions, demons, will suddenly vanish and all will be better.

As I get older, and remain separated from close family, I appreciate church as much for the community it provides and the chance to connect with other human beings. We all stumble along life's rocky path, picking each other up, dusting ourselves off and continuing to put one foot in front of the other, all the while recognizing that we are all in need of saving.

I think of Dietrich Bonhoeffer's explanation of costly grace. It is "the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock."

Religion, faith, is very personal to me, and I take it seriously. But religion exists in this world, and I am wary of anyone who sells religion to me as a checklist of beliefs. For me, grace and mercy now also require something more of me than I am often willing to give.

Rew, I love your take of this...

For some their belief in something bigger than themselves keeps them going, be that religion or whatever. For some, like myself who is pagan/wiccan, it was my animals, my responsibility to them and for them that has kept me from reaching dark terrible places in my life. And while my experiences with my husband and these laws have been rough, it was the times before I met him that things were the darkest and my dog, Sano and cat, Sebastian, (may I see them both at the Rainbow bridge when it is time) kept me going in the house and the horses, Bo, Bob, Faith and Dixie (who are all still with me) kept me going in the barn or I would have never left the house. For many of you it is your children and the hope of their future that keeps many of you here going. To me all of that is a religion by itself. Belief in yourself even when you don't believe it yourself, the fact that your children, my animals believe in us is the key.

@JoeHillsGoast: That was spot on!!!!!

@ Rew: If there be any obvious contradiction in the Constitution it is that it was founded on religious beliefs, and yet, the prominent point of the First Amendment is be free from religious dictatorship.

I do not believe we can and ever will achieve religious freedom when we permit religion to dictate civil liberties and civil rights -- whether in whom we marry, if we have an abortion, and so on.

In terms of the topic of this thread, i.e. religion dictating freedom, if we are to go according to biblical teachings in the New Testament then we must favor the convicted and give them a second, third, fourth, and so on chance no less than what Jesus does for all of us. However, I believe people tend to apply the teachings of the Old testament to classes of people whom we dislike because the Old Testament favors public ridiculing, personal hate, and severe punishments up to and including death.

Those politicians who preach "religious liberty" are the ones that scare me the most because theirs is not one of true liberty, but rather, one of demanding all conform to their religious beliefs.

Ahh the bible... a book written by men, biased by their experiences and knowledge and enforced like law. An extraordinary piece of literature, be it fiction or not... I have trouble believing in it blindly as being a strict history of the time. For those passages and stories were written by human beings, who are biased and fallible.

Religious liberty is an oxymoron, there is no such thing. LOL it makes me giggle saying it in my head... "Religious Liberty" LOL

Well, many millions of people do believe in the Bible and judge others according to what is written ... though many them do so by selective application / interpretation of scriptures, and there are those who use what is written to advance political agendas. Whereas many others, however, live as best they can according to what is written ... the core of which is to do good, treat others with respect, and forgive.

The same can be said for the Koran, the Urantia book and Aleister Crowley's books about Wicca.

All of those books and methodologies have the core values that are similar to each other, the main premise being "harm none, do what ye will" or the golden rule "do on to others, as you would have done to you" I would love to see politicians follow to the letter the latter or would it be too hard for them to accomplish?

This is why I say that politicians who run on a platform of religious liberty scare me the most because what it means is abide by their religious beliefs. True religious liberty will never exist so long as man dictates things in what rights and liberties people will have and exercise, and under what circumstances.

If one abides by religious teachings in the scope of the New Testament, we would likely see a collapse of politics because political agendas frequently and inevitably contradict biblical scriptures and the more that a particular class is hated the more adrift we become from biblical scriptures.

If we can maintain a Secular Society then each person has freedom to follow whatever personal beliefs they decide 'fits" them without using, abusing or taking unfair advantage. Maintaining a Secular Society means freedom of speech, freedom of religion, separation of church and state. No overt or covert proselytizing allowed. No religious conversion required for 'successful' re-entry. Recognition that every human being merits respect and dignity in life without 'earning' it. Recognition that no one is ever so 'righteous' that they or we can afford to cast the first stone.

Judge not, lest you be judged. This is because the church has a different belief system than those outside who do not chose to know Christ. Those in the church are disciplined (judged) for their actions. The church elders are suppose to, in private, let a church leader or member know what they are doing is not what is expected. Then if action continues, the church leader brings elders to rebuke and try to change the members actions, then if it continues (either the leader or member) is not allowed to be in a member or in leadership in the church. This person is allowed to attend, but not be a part of the body of Christ (depending on which denomination what action this may be). Even some outspoken atheists now agree living by Christ's teaching is so much better for the world than other religions, especially to Koran. Nowhere does it state infidels, nonbelievers, homosexuals, adulterers, or anyone should be killed for any reason. Love is Christ's message. Just because some have got things confused does not mean they want death for nonbelievers. That is just silliness on the part of republicans and democrats and I wish they would do away with all that nonsense and just vote for a person....