Hey Kathy! GET OUT OF MY HEAD WOMAN!!!

There could never be a more true statement in the world and I hope that newbies will truly take your/my/others advice on this one. I completely agree that in the case of MUTUAL decision on divorce it can happen. And MAYBE in the cases where infidelity did not happen but even then, not mutual? very hard.

In my case the ex thinking we could still be friends constituted me having to listen to him moan and whine and complain about the kids and his relationship with them and I guess he thought I would have advice? Advice was grow up and be the parent, I don't call you griping and asking for guidance...I am screwing them up all on my own! (just kidding, we have great relationships)

Oh boy, I should stop typing before I create and unintended novel.

Listen to Kathy, she hit the nail on the head!

This is how I look at it. A best friend doesn't do the kinds of things he did to me. When we were married I didn't expect him to be joined to my hip or never to make a mistake, but I did expect loyalty. If he could not be a friend when he was supposed to be one, then he certainly isn't capable of being one when he doesn't have to be. Hope that makes sense.

I agree...no contact is better.

Who is their right mind would want to be 'friends' with an ex-spouse? I suppose being CIVIL for the sake of the kids, especially when there is shared custody arrangements where one must regularly interact with him/her, is necessary and makes ones OWN life easier. I'm just thankful that doesn't describe me!

In my case, my kids were grown, so there was and IS no reason to interact....not that he's even tried!

This I know for sure: cheating spouses become EXPERTS at deceit....and letting themselves off the hook i.e. not taking ownership for the pain and destruction that their actions cause.. It's just necessary to accomplish their clandestine and disgusting behaviour. WHO would want anything to do with a person like that?!

The only new friend that I'll be excited to see the ex make is with good old Lady Karma. He's ALL hers!!!!

yes, Civility does not equal friends

I agree with DairyTech. After years of observation, I too discovered that the devotion to the cause of marriage is one sided and the pathological liar is not grounded in a commitment to the principles. Should a spouse no longer be needed for any reason, one is likely to get a taste of the liar's vindictive nature, hence, liars are incapable of genuinely intimate FRIENDSHIP. It's a matter of knowing reality.

As Susan Elliott says in her book "Getting Past Your Breakup" -- "Why do you think they are called the X?"

I'm learning some more about this "let's be friends" b.s. with Tom. He is the one who hid his thoughts and feelings; he is the one who refused to take ownership of his issues - yet he INSISTS that we still should be friends. Well, I've had almost 5 months to think about that (and those of you who read my Journals know how I have struggled with the concept) and I am more convinced now than ever that you CAN'T go from being lovers/spouses to being "just friends." Friends are open and honest with each other. Friends don't deceive one another. Friends don't send mixed messages to each other.

Stick a fork in me - I'm DONE!

I am one of the few here who has not had ANY contact with my ex, never talked to him, nothing. I am better for it, believe me. I divorced in 08, not a word or communication from either of us. AND there are more that are in the same situation.. just apparently not on DS. Do not do that to yourself. Find some new friends!

I think you can be civil and cordial with an ex if you have to, meaning life events in the future for your children. I am not talking about minor children, you may have to be the those 3 C's Civil, Cordial and Communicate if they are young. I do not think you can be friends, and over the years here, I have stated that and too some heat. Look up friends, it is an oxymoron with and ex, friend! Divorce is about termination and dissolving the relationship.

If you think that, become a sounding board for an ex, and even nuttier stay his confidant, get and give advice to him, and even advise or listen to his relationship woes or triumphs.. seriously go back or get thee a therapist! Why would you do that? Would you touch a hot stove coil? Nothing good is going to come out of that, but hurting yourself. As to getting advice from my ex, me never? I have heard more nutty reasons people give here and off DS for " contacting" an ex. I am talking about after the decree is signed ( well and during too). Find a real friend, and if you need say lawnmower advice, try Youtube or Google. Don't call your friend, your ex. He is not your friend. He is the ex spouse.

Divorce me, and you lost the benefit of my presence and the benefits of being my spouse and friend. Infidelity? I sure the heck not going to stay in your life! If there was infidelity I think it would be even easier, friends don't cheat and deceive. I would have not talked to him during the divorce, not just after if there was infidelity! I never dealt with that, but I had no one to blame or get angry at... except him. No anger at another woman, which feels good, but in practice is really non productive. Karma, my take is that not your place to worry about revenge which is also non productive. OF course all of us never want them to think they made us miserable and want to show them you are happy or are with someone one new.. guess what? Exes don't care if we are happy or have boyfriend or girlfriend! Nor should you care what he is doing? How do you do that, you don't have a friendship. AND if you do, believe me, you are giving the ex spouse friend some respect they do not deserve. Or worst case scenario, you give the them at least a big ego! She can't get along without me.. after all she told me that in the divorce! Maybe also give them an idea that you still want them back.. and maybe you do unconsciously. Think about that?

I like to joke a bit and say I an not friends with any of my exes. I was married once, but there were other relationships before I married.. so I get to say that. I ended those, and a few friendships over the years. It is the way to go! I do deal with this on another level. My boyfriend claims he is friends with his ex... I say you never can be. He doesn't see it, he is too nice, but I know on some level, it is a delusion on her part. Do I like it, no. Can I change it? No. But I did tell him if there is line in sand I draw, it is a be a short line, my line not hers. I have drawn it, like the time she called up at 7 at night and wanted him to drive 100 miles in blizzard to take her to emergency room. Some of you know me, you can imagine what I said.. and he did not go!

I can't imagine being friends with him-he is NOT the kind of person I am friends with! He is a narcissistic, petty person-who wants to be around someone like that?

As a fact, this idea being friends with the ex, is much like the snake story: The Man and the Snake
As Adapted by Dr. Mike Lockett, The Normal Storyteller

"A long time ago, a Man was walking along the road. As he walked, he saw a Snake that was caught beneath a large rock that had fallen on him. "Pleassssse... help me," said the Snake. "This rock has fallen on me. I cannot move. The heat of the sun is killing me. If you don't help me, I will die."

The Man looked at the Snake and said, "If I remove the rock, you will bite me. Then, I will die instead of you."

"Why would I harm the Man who has saved me?" asked the Snake. Besides, I am so weak, I only have enough energy to crawl back to my home to recover from this terrible event."

The Man was a kind Man and did not like to see anyone suffer, even a Snake. So, he lifted the stone off the Snake. As soon as the stone was removed from his back, the Snake raised his head high in the air, and he bared his long fangs. "Prepare to be bitten," said the Snake.

"This is not right," said 'the Man. "You promised not to bite me if I helped you."

"You knew I was a Snake when you saw me. You knew that Snakes bite. You even said I would bite you when I was freed. You are right! Prepare to get bitten."

Once bitten, twice shy :) The snake in THIS story wasn't even hiding in the grass, he was out in PLAIN view !

me friends with that thing, forget it. But since my daughter talks to her father, I hear more than I would care to. Anyway, all I do is laugh and smile when she is on the phone with him. I have not had a conversation or seen him since I filed for separation. I just saw him briefly at my son's wedding. And he made himself look like the poor innocent victim. As Kathy said, I am done, have had it. No more. So tell them to take a long walk off a short pier.

Civil yes, friends no, friends nfw, you don't get to choose to keep using the parts of me that you like nfw, I am worth so much more and I always was your best friend not just on the fun
But in the shit, you counted on me having your back while you gve you face Away, I'll never be an ass to
You but that is where youve painted yourself into a corner that i asked then begged you not to go Nd you we t with a FU to me, well okay but S for friends zero zilch NADa

Kathy, good on you, my dear. At least you can give up on him knowing that you did your best. If you hadn't tried at all, you would always wonder.....

I also wondered if friendship were possible, considering that he hadn't been a friend to me during the last years of our marriage. I had an inkling it wasn't going to happen when he used "friendship" as a lure during our settlement procedures eg "if we are to be friends, you will....." Still, I kept up an infrequent email connection until he didn't respond to the one I sent to him about a friend who was diagnosed with stomach cancer. I found out about a month later that he had called the other friend who had told me about it, but he is yet to acknowledge my email. This happened roughly around the time that he disrespected me at my daughter's place that day (as you described, we 'fell into' our old roles), and that was the last straw. We are no contact. And it feels great!

Knuckle, I love that mental imagery of the long walk off the short pier:) Shame my ex is a good swimmer but it still makes me laugh. LOL.

love and hugs
kamary

I wouldn't say friends , but rather friendly .
I don't see or hear from her much, but when I do I'm usually friendly.
I made a mistake the last time by sitting by her during my Grandsons Soccer game .
She said some things that I didn't think were right to say and the other day by my Grandsons football game I was sitting with my son and daughter in law . then my x came and sat down . They started talking about wedding plans for my x niece. (I wrote about this last week). I've learned that being friendly doesn't mean that I have to sit by her .I can and will move away from her the next time . Being friendly doesn't mean that I have to listen to their conversation about some family function coming up.
So, you could say that I'm friendly ,but will keep my distance. .
ONE more thing .................. My x and I are still on this mortgage for this house that I've been living in, paying for since she left . The house is in foreclosure and will be auctioned off soon . (Another very sore spot in my life . Loosing my house !) .................. anyway , there could be some financial problems here that we will both be responsible for . Plus we both have a loan from a long time ago that we are both responsible for ........................, but I have been paying for the last 6 years. All this is going to change pretty soon........... She's going to have to pay her share ................ Then the sh-t may hit the fan ..AGAIN ... LOL..
We'll see how "friendly" she will be ......
I feel bad for her ,but ...I'm not the one who ran off. it's only right that she pays her half.

Anyway ................. have a good day everyone .

PS. My wife and I are trying to figure out how we can get out of Il and the cold this winter ... I'm thinking of going to Florida (Watch out Kathi LOL!) for a month or two. . Just rent a place down there .
My wife has never been to Florida so she will love all the things there is to do and see .
ME------ I just don't want the snow and cold anymore. not for three months anyway ...LOL...
The thought of getting out of here is what keeps me going right now .....
Timeman

I like the snake story, so true!

Friends, definitely not. I fought that concept for years, and I was so scared because of my co-dependency that I would keep trying to hold on to anything he would give to me. I also have finally come to realize that he wasn't a friend when we were together. He has done some really bad things to me and the kids, and friends just don't do that. Much happier without him. She can have him and his problems. I just feel bad for my kids. They can't get away from him!