Codependency Support Group
Codependency is defined as someone who exhibits too much, and often inappropriate, caring for another person's struggles. A codependent person may try to change, or feel shame about their most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with the other person's struggles. If you are on a journey towards self-love, this support group is for you. Join us and find others...
So I well place the story of what happened and continue at the bottom....
A little back ground on me. I was married for 7 years to someone who cheated on me a lot. say 30+ times all different people. so after years of therapy and counseling I decided I didn't want anymore of it so I left. (reason I never left sooner was I felt she NEEDED me) About 2 weeks after I left her I met someone at my job and we fell hard in love. I mean hard like the kinda love that makes you feel like you got hit by a semi truck. Little Issue, she has a long term boyfriend that she lives with. So that's when I became what I hated most, the other man. We snuck around for a couple months, then she decided she no longer wanted to be with him but with me. She left him and about 5-6 months later we moved in together. Everything was great the first year in, I believed she had just found a better man and that's why she cheated on him. It wasn't just sex it was love. and that brings me to what happened two weeks ago. I started to take notice that she had a habit of lying to almost everyone. When I talked to her about it she said sometime she enjoys it and like to see if she can make them do what she wants. I would notice she would lie about things that meant nothing like where we had gone that day. I told her it made me feel uncomfortable because if she's lying to everyone we know, I'd be a idiot to think I'm the only one she's telling the truth to. Then one day I started to notice different behaviors and suspicious phone and internet activity. I noticed she was chatting with someone while laying in bed with me at 2am. Because of my past experience I'm like a damn private investigator and knew how to find out what I wanted to find out. I discovered she was using Facebook to have long interpersonal conversations with a guy she had met. She met him while she was studying at her friends house for school. However; I also learned that they were not studying they were in fact drinking. I discovered this while reading the messages. There was no overt sexual discussions but did appear to be two people learning about each others hopes, dreams, fears and desires. With no mention of me of course. I brought this to her attention and she claimed it was innocent however she did accept that it was inappropriate and disrespectful to me. I told her that because of my past I'm very sensitive to this and it has violated my trust in her. She also stated she didn't trust me because I was able to violate her privacy instead of coming to her about the issue. We decided to work on trusting each other more. Just the other day I was working on my motorcycle because she decided that she needed to go to work on her day off to pick up some hours. We talked and she stated that she needed to work as much as she can due to looming tuition payments. she stated after she got to work she may leave at 3p but she wanted to stay till 7p. When I finished fixing my motorcycle I decided to go to the store for a test ride. While there I purchased a bag of gummie bears for her, it's her favorite. I decided to drop them off at her work so she could snack on them. I walked in and attempted to find her but no one could locate her. I was them informed that she had left by her own choice (1:30pm) even tho they wanted her to stay later. As I'm walking out I start to have a panic attack. All kind of old feelings and insecurities came rushing back. I attempted to contact her but it kept going to voice mail. approx 7 try's later she picks up. I inquire where she is at and she states shes at her friends apartment complex (the one she was partying at) to get info about a possible apartment since our lease is coming due. I flipped my shit but kept my cool. I told her that if she says she's somewhere she needs to be there or let me know of the change. I told her we need time apart and that she needs to spend the week at her parents till we can decide if this relationship is worth saving. That is where I am at right now. I know how it looks, I know i'm not the exception to the rule. I know past issue = future issues. I've done it and have multiple shirts showing my stay. I love her so much to where it hurts and I'm so afraid. cannot sleep for more then a few hours before the nightmares start. Food doesn't taste the same I've dropped 15lbs already. When I can eat it's not much since I feel like there is a blender inside me. Everyone I know who knows us and the situation except one person. says the same she did it with you she'll do it to you. They all says I'm better off but it doesn't feel better. It helped to write this out, please be gentle with the responses the wound is still open.
Posted on 08/19/15, 07:05 pm
Update:
The past few days have been a real hell for me. I was on my motorcycle trying to clear my head, I couldn't stop crying and didn't see the uneven pavement ahead. I came very close to hitting the guard rail at 80mph. I thought about a lot of things on the side of that interstate that night. I got home and couldn't stop sobbing. she hadn't talked to me since I asked her to leave. The fear of not knowing the outcome was unbearable. I called her and begged her to come over and talk. She did, and after a very long conversation about our past relationships, how we came into our relationship and what we both want for ourselves and each other in the future. We decide to break it off, For the both of us. She's finishing school and working on going to therapy for her issues. I just got notified I was selected to a team at my company that pays very well but requires me to leave the country for months at a time. While I'm away I'm going to work on me and not have any relationships for awhile. I don't need to bring my distrust and unhealthy behaviors to any future relationships. We will remain friends since she is my best friend and I'm hers. Things have already started to get better. I slept more today, ate a full meal without feeling like I was getting sick. The pains in my stomach has mostly subsided. It was mutual understanding of our problems and what the other person expects from each other. Maybe one day we will be able to try this again. But for now we need to be separate. I still love her dearly, always will. I know she feels the same. "
I would feel pain if I didn't talk to her, or saw her. I would get angry then when I saw her feel calm again. I'll continue this tomorrow when I have more time.
A little back ground on me. I was married for 7 years to someone who cheated on me a lot. say 30+ times all different people. so after years of therapy and counseling I decided I didn't want anymore of it so I left. (reason I never left sooner was I felt she NEEDED me) About 2 weeks after I left her I met someone at my job and we fell hard in love. I mean hard like the kinda love that makes you feel like you got hit by a semi truck. Little Issue, she has a long term boyfriend that she lives with. So that's when I became what I hated most, the other man. We snuck around for a couple months, then she decided she no longer wanted to be with him but with me. She left him and about 5-6 months later we moved in together. Everything was great the first year in, I believed she had just found a better man and that's why she cheated on him. It wasn't just sex it was love. and that brings me to what happened two weeks ago. I started to take notice that she had a habit of lying to almost everyone. When I talked to her about it she said sometime she enjoys it and like to see if she can make them do what she wants. I would notice she would lie about things that meant nothing like where we had gone that day. I told her it made me feel uncomfortable because if she's lying to everyone we know, I'd be a idiot to think I'm the only one she's telling the truth to. Then one day I started to notice different behaviors and suspicious phone and internet activity. I noticed she was chatting with someone while laying in bed with me at 2am. Because of my past experience I'm like a damn private investigator and knew how to find out what I wanted to find out. I discovered she was using Facebook to have long interpersonal conversations with a guy she had met. She met him while she was studying at her friends house for school. However; I also learned that they were not studying they were in fact drinking. I discovered this while reading the messages. There was no overt sexual discussions but did appear to be two people learning about each others hopes, dreams, fears and desires. With no mention of me of course. I brought this to her attention and she claimed it was innocent however she did accept that it was inappropriate and disrespectful to me. I told her that because of my past I'm very sensitive to this and it has violated my trust in her. She also stated she didn't trust me because I was able to violate her privacy instead of coming to her about the issue. We decided to work on trusting each other more. Just the other day I was working on my motorcycle because she decided that she needed to go to work on her day off to pick up some hours. We talked and she stated that she needed to work as much as she can due to looming tuition payments. she stated after she got to work she may leave at 3p but she wanted to stay till 7p. When I finished fixing my motorcycle I decided to go to the store for a test ride. While there I purchased a bag of gummie bears for her, it's her favorite. I decided to drop them off at her work so she could snack on them. I walked in and attempted to find her but no one could locate her. I was them informed that she had left by her own choice (1:30pm) even tho they wanted her to stay later. As I'm walking out I start to have a panic attack. All kind of old feelings and insecurities came rushing back. I attempted to contact her but it kept going to voice mail. approx 7 try's later she picks up. I inquire where she is at and she states shes at her friends apartment complex (the one she was partying at) to get info about a possible apartment since our lease is coming due. I flipped my shit but kept my cool. I told her that if she says she's somewhere she needs to be there or let me know of the change. I told her we need time apart and that she needs to spend the week at her parents till we can decide if this relationship is worth saving. That is where I am at right now. I know how it looks, I know i'm not the exception to the rule. I know past issue = future issues. I've done it and have multiple shirts showing my stay. I love her so much to where it hurts and I'm so afraid. cannot sleep for more then a few hours before the nightmares start. Food doesn't taste the same I've dropped 15lbs already. When I can eat it's not much since I feel like there is a blender inside me. Everyone I know who knows us and the situation except one person. says the same she did it with you she'll do it to you. They all says I'm better off but it doesn't feel better. It helped to write this out, please be gentle with the responses the wound is still open.
Posted on 08/19/15, 07:05 pm
Update:
The past few days have been a real hell for me. I was on my motorcycle trying to clear my head, I couldn't stop crying and didn't see the uneven pavement ahead. I came very close to hitting the guard rail at 80mph. I thought about a lot of things on the side of that interstate that night. I got home and couldn't stop sobbing. she hadn't talked to me since I asked her to leave. The fear of not knowing the outcome was unbearable. I called her and begged her to come over and talk. She did, and after a very long conversation about our past relationships, how we came into our relationship and what we both want for ourselves and each other in the future. We decide to break it off, For the both of us. She's finishing school and working on going to therapy for her issues. I just got notified I was selected to a team at my company that pays very well but requires me to leave the country for months at a time. While I'm away I'm going to work on me and not have any relationships for awhile. I don't need to bring my distrust and unhealthy behaviors to any future relationships. We will remain friends since she is my best friend and I'm hers. Things have already started to get better. I slept more today, ate a full meal without feeling like I was getting sick. The pains in my stomach has mostly subsided. It was mutual understanding of our problems and what the other person expects from each other. Maybe one day we will be able to try this again. But for now we need to be separate. I still love her dearly, always will. I know she feels the same. "
I would feel pain if I didn't talk to her, or saw her. I would get angry then when I saw her feel calm again. I'll continue this tomorrow when I have more time.
The codependent in me wants to continue to do everything for her, and be the savior in the relationship. She bought me dinner last night and it really messed with me. I was confused as to why someone would want to do something nice for me.
It's hard man, I feel for you. it sounds like you're having a rough go with women, and I can understand. I hope it gets better for you, I wish I had advice but I'm currently crawling through the muck myself
Do therapy on why you have this compulsion to feel like the savior. I bet it's linked to your parents and your upbringing.
You seem on the right path. Just don't stray and don't be obsessed with making mistakes... it's how you grow. You are human.
Hugs.
If not the same then they are closely related.
Same dysfunctions, same mentality, same treatment.
The popular distinction is like these 2:
1) Calling it as codependency is when viewing one self.
2) Calling it as narcissism is when viewing it in other people.
Same thing - different view.
You and I might disagree on many things but let us hope that will be a big part of having real discussions.
A codependent person might think and believe that they care too much but that mental perception is never accurate.
People like Mother Teresa and Jesus Christ and Gandhi and MLK all cared too much and that was a high noble quality which is praiseworthy.
Codependency cares about controlling others and cares too much about the feelings and emotions of others and try to control the other people, so that kind of caring is dysfunctional and misguided and harmful to all.
To care a lot about other people is a wonderful virtue when it is done correctly.
The narcissist is caring too much about their self and as such that kind of caring is actually hurting their self.
The narcissist also cares about other people in a negative way as if always competing.
Codependent people who do not get proper treatment will be overly concerned about our self and codependency becomes very defensive and we create walls to shut others out and to lock our self inside.
It takes the exact same kind of treatment and recovery for a narcissist as it does for codependency, and therefore I see them as the two sides of the same doubled edged sword.
Maybe that's the point; they are two that tend to be linked to each other.
And yes; sometimes we are very much in the same camp and other times, we are not. But I think we two are able to dialogue with kindness and respect. I know you've challenged my views and I've learned from you. And I respect that you have a very different life experience and I honor what it's taught you.
Codependents and Narcissists might look the same from the surface. But their intentions and effects on other are very different. Their ability to heal and even seek treatment are completely different as well.
Take a situation SAY, with a family member who is addicted to drugs or alcohol.
The addict asks for money.
BOTH the codependent and the narcissist have boundaries to never give money to the addict.
They know that it will be directly or indirectly used to further their addiction. They know that it is bad to give this addict money in any form.
BOTH choose to give the money anyway.
The codependent looks at themselves and considers why and chooses to stick to their boundary in the future. They realize that they themselves made the mistake.
The narcissist claims that asking for money is abusive. The addict was totally at fault for even asking. They take no responsibility for their own choice. Then they vilify the addict and become abusive demanding that the addict be responsible for the actions of the narcissist. Adding to the abuse, they entice any and all who will listen to believe that the addict is abusive. When they met someone who points out that there is a choice to NOT give money, they vilify that person as well and write them off. They simply cant accept responsibility.
The codependent has the possibility of changing their behavior. Since they see their actions as choices they make, they can choose to be less abusive in the future.
The narcissist has no possible way of healing. They want to see the problem as belonging to someone else. They place the blame on others for their own choices. Anyone who disagrees will be attack and blamed as well.
Narcissists are manipulative to meets their own selfish needs. Codependents are manipulative in an effort to help others or make a situation better for everyone.
There are major differences in the effects of the abuses.
There will always be crossover. Humans are variable. That makes this stuff challenging.
Working on oneself before starting a new relationship is definitely the best choice. I wish I had made the same decision before my current relationship.
I can definitely relate to the "I want to save her" feeling as well. And it eats away at us if we don't do anything for them. I think you already know what you need to work on, so I will just say that I support you wherever you are and am confident that you will find your way to a healthy relationship.
The codep is concerned about trying to make everybody happy so they feel good about themselves. The narc is incapable of being happy because they're convinced everybody is wrong and their needs can't possibly be met because they need to support their view that everybody is at fault.
A person has got to learn (be abused to get) the codependency and the narcissism and it almost always comes from the family of origin or from our earliest years growing up, and so I am referring to when (after) the person has left the abuse and is trying to adjust to the real world.
As such then an adult codependent or narcissist who is now free from any abuse or addiction has BOTH (both the C and the N) has got to start creating the same healthy boundaries and has got to stop our own dysfunctions and got to heal the inner child and got to do the same kind of treatment and recovery work for codependency as for narcissism.
A person with untreated codependency will act and behave in the same ways as does a narcissist.
Codependent people often end up in relationships with narcissists. Both codeps and narcs have unhealthy relationships with the SELF. So they share that common bond.
There is a big difference, though: Codeps fixate on others/put others first, while narcs fixate on themselves/put themselves first.
So thinking about that, you can see how a codep would be attracted to a narc and vice versa. While they share that unhealthy relationship with their own self, each also fills a certain role for the other. One excessively takes while the other excessively gives.
Deli - I've been reading about narcissistic personality disorder lately, you inspired me to do this because of a few things you have mentioned in various posts really resonated in my mind. I'm trying to understand my own mother better, and I am fairly certain that she may be a narc. Anyway - I did run across a few times where articles would try to explain the causes of NPD. It seems very complex - genetic, social, etc. They seem to have a lot of theories but no real answers. If you find anything, let me know, because I am curious, too! :)
Eddie - the best thing you could do for yourself right now, is probably to stay single, focus on your work, and talk with a therapist who can help you identify what's going on and help you learn how to move forward in a healthier way.
You'll always be able to find a woman who wants to be saved. They are a dime a dozen. But I doubt you want to spend the rest of your life being hurt and drained by someone like that. You deserve better. ((hugs)) and best of luck to you.
But so is mental health and social skills and productive upright people are created by their childhood and parenting.
I myself started to make a huge big change in myself at 25 (by me being provoked to do it) and then again at 30, but none of my eleven (11) siblings ever made their own change, so getting healthier or rescued later in life is a much harder way to get healthy then to stay screwed up forever, or to be so blessed as to be raised in a healthy family.
My own view is that codependency and narcissism are really the exact same thing with maybe a little difference depending on each person's individual way of coping.
The codependency at first does fixate on others because the others are abusive or addicts, but after they are no longer children and no longer in the abusive situation THEN they become narcissistic based on being overly defensive and self protecting.
If one gets treatment and gets help or starts recovery work then every thing changes and improves - but lots of people do NOT.
The codependent child who turns into an adult with become narcissistic as the flip side of codependency.
If untreated then we become just like our abuser, and we carry onward the same dysfunctions as we got in our childhood.
The abused child becomes an abuser as an adult.
This is the way that I understand it.
It's like cards- genetics sets the deck; parenting deals the cards; you decide how to play them.