Codependency Support Group
Codependency is defined as someone who exhibits too much, and often inappropriate, caring for another person's struggles. A codependent person may try to change, or feel shame about their most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with the other person's struggles. If you are on a journey towards self-love, this support group is for you. Join us and find others...
My first post on this forum way back in November was me freaking out that I couldn't talk to my partner. Over six months later, I'm still working on talking to my partner. As some one of you know, I have hired a relationship coach who's been helping me through my SUPER HIGH anxiety and DEADLY fear of conflict and confrontation, so hopefully, this bloody talk actually happens one day.
I had something of a revelation a couple of nights ago. I've said before I'm afraid of coming off as a traitor and causing him to suffer, which is true, but I realized the real reason I'm terrified of this confrontation is that I'm afraid of pain. I realize that by being honest, I'm going to be removing my masks and defenses, and I'm going to lay my vulnerable heart before him, and there's a hell of a good chance it's going to get the sh*t kicked out of it. Or worse, tossed aside and treated as if it was not worth being pissed on even if it was on fire.
I'm really bad with dealing with huge negative emotions. Rejection, grief, devastation at a grand scale is something I'm terrified of dealing with.
Remember this post I wrote about Matt Kahn's "God, I hope __________ doesn't happen?" (https://www.dailystrength.org/group/codependency/discussion/guilt-betrayal-and-clean-hands) I guess my ___________ is now, "God, I hope I don't lay bare and vulnerable my beating heart and have it either ripped to shreds or rejected. God, I hope I don't have to deal with huge negative emotions."
Matt Kahn made a brilliant point. He said, why don't we want ___________ to happen? Because it will cause us pain. But people who are afraid of ______________ happening are already in pain.
That is very true. I'm already feeling rejected, bereaved, jealous, resentful, and guilty. Sure, they're not the huge negative emotions I'm pretty sure are going to come with having my actual heart kicked opened, but this relentless undercurrent of suffering is its own hell.
I was looking into flipping the "God, I hope _______________ doesn't happen" to "God, I hope ___________ does happen." I've done twice in my journal, once in March and once just a week ago. Both times I got panicky when I wrote something like, "God, I hope he does hate me and think I'm POS." I remember writing that down and automatically saying, "oh god, That can’t happen!”
I tried it again a couple of nights ago after I had my revelation, and it felt much better, so here it is.
"God, I hope I ruin his life. I hope he hates me. I hope he wants to tear me limb from limb. I hope he freezes me out and tells me what a waste of his time I've been. God, I hope I feel like I'm dying. I hope I feel like every cell of me in screaming in agony. I hope I get the wind knocked out of me from the pain. I hope it hurts like hell."
For the first time, I didn't have a panic attack when I wrote that out. Oh, I know I'm going to have a panic attack before I talk to him, but at least writing that out didn't lead me to hysterics.
So about that revelation I had, I was reading some old stories I wrote decades ago, and I was reminded by how much I used to love "trainwreck relationships." I've kicked myself for it because I deprived myself a chance for a healthy, loving relationship just because I thought trainwrecks were sexy or something. I thought that phrase from Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, "Our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and it's a broken hallejuh" was so romantic. Idiot younger me. I shoved all my old stories aside and actually went through a phrase where I wanted to erased that old self of mine that I decided was immature and stupid. I blamed my idiot younger self for why I'm such a loser in my middle age.
Well, I re-read my stories for the first time in years and, folks, they were GOOD. I forgotten how beautiful trainwrecks can be. My younger self was wiser than I realized. It reminded me why I love Greek and Shakespearean tragadies. I love comedies (especially Shakespeare's comedies) and happy endings and sparkly stories, but I forgotten that there was incredible beauty in suffering and pain. Dude, the cartharsis that comes at the end of King Lear or Hamlet or Oedipus Rex (and dare I say, one of the stories I wrote), it reminded that one of the thing that makes great art is finding the beauty in those huge negative emotions I'm so afraid of. Matt Kahn talked about a superstate, where one experiences two opposite emotion at the same time, like being in so much pain but also feeling so alive because of the depth of the emotion. As he said, "I feel terrible, but I never felt more in my body." He also talked about having your ________ happen and you're in a lot of pain from it, but you're also feeling a liberating profound sense of relief. To me, that’s similar to cartharsis, and that sounds like art.
Yes, it would suck if he hates me and said I caused him to suffer and wasted his time, but there's a strange twisted beauty to the fact that I did leave an impression on him. Good or bad, I left my mark. Rejection is beyond painful, but isn't it beautiful that I can survive something as terrible as the longing and heartbreak from comes from rejection? Feeling like every cell of me in screaming in agony, having the wind knocked out of me from the pain, hurting like hell, they are terrible emotions, but man, how human is it to feel that deeply? How does it connect us to the history of deep pain that the humans before us experience? How profound is it that love can turn to hate? How alive can one feel when they feel like they're dying?
There is beauty to be found in those huge negative emotions.
But dude, I'm terrified of feeling negative emotions deeply. I'm like a raw open nerve who's constantly trying to avoid being pinched, so I throw on defenses after defenses on and procrastinate and avoid and slither away from. And in doing so, I think I alienated myself. Someone once told me that pain alienates people and there's a lot truth to that. Pain makes us pull away and sometimes makes other people pull away from us. But pain doesn't have to always alienate us. Sometimes it connects us to other people in pain, to our past as a human race trying to find its place on this planet, and now I realize, it can connect us to ourselves.
Before I told myself I had to have this confrontation for my honor and my self-respect, which is still true. Now I see a reason that's more revelant to my personality - it's an excellent opportunity to experience being vulnerable for the first time in my life (omg, cue panic attack) and to see the beauty in big emotions and perhaps finally connect to myself.
Don't get me wrong. I'll probably still be too afraid to go through with it (right now the chances are 50/50), but what a shame that would be for the art-and-beauty-lover in me, to lose out on this opportunity to truly experience the art and cartharsis of big painful emotions.
(BTW, if anyone is worried I still want a trainwreck relationship, no, I would like a healthy relationship where I could be myself and have the other person be loving and caring towards to me. The trainwreck I'm talking about here is having the _______________ that I'm so afraid of happening happen.)
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Ever since I stopped doing therapy because of insurance, I've been feeling that old tense and irritable sense of anxiety and stress. I hate that. I was making so many strides and changes during therapy, my therapist would acknowledge all of my progress and accomplishments, and I miss that reassurance. Today I thought about it, and I made those changes! She would always tell me that I chose to...
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It's been some time since my last post...sorry. I've been going through a challenging time with the sale of my home, purchase of a condo and my adult asperger son that lives with me. I've had days where I couldn't get out of bed, days where I stayed in my pj's and days where all I managed to do was eat, drink fluids and take care of my Sweet Mia kitty. Sweet Mia came to me from a shelter about...

All I can write is the Fact you are so much more willing to put yourself into the vulnerable place Today, compared to 6 months ago. Per the talk, what would happen if you just did what you needed each day and let go of control of the rest? I've Finally gotten to the place where actually believe I Have No Control over Anything...what I do have is Choice, and this is my current focus to reduce codependent behaviors, increase my healthy emotional boundaries and let go of the need to find a ""fix"".
https://positivepsychology.com/positive-psychology-com-podcast-out-of-your-mind-into-your-life/
music...to listen while, and after to process
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkM-FjfN6Mc&list=RD-vvpsIiUVKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0eE8l87oyY&list=RD-vvpsIiUVKY&index=7
Another talk that has helped me Imensly is by a medium, I can't watch it, but just shut off my screen...My healing came from the 48 minute point...she goes in depth about forgiveness, self love, and We Do Deserve good things in life...a need I have to believe I am deserving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFL8RxnN9RQ&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR2qF4h37gUxBua5Ub1_2M0Yr66MkifzUKj8p9VqKueXj-HR76cbqG7oDkA
I took an appreciation of Shakespeare class and the professor was amazing. Made it come alive. Memorized the tomorrow and tomorrow soliloquy...... full of sound and fury signifying nothing. That’s suffering right there! Memorized the entire Lady of Shallot because the sad yet sacred life she had mirrors my life in some ways. Alone in my tower.....
I have changed how I feel separate through pain. It certainly does bring me into my human life that I have been too shy to embrace.
I am coming to see that my perception of suffering is that I have been conditioned to think that there’s something lacking that causes the suffering. In reality I have been blessed with a pretty good life. And what I imagined is lacking is right in front of me just waiting to be picked up.
I have habitually convinced myself I wasn’t worthy. Five months ago my wife and I had a long talk. She’s going through a hard time and feels that she can’t give me what I want in a relationship. I know her struggle and the thought of losing her was difficult. For about a week:) Because that’s when we both realized that we have been a train wreck (love it) together and something had to change. She’s coming back from Hawaii soon and we’ve enjoyed our time apart. Lonely but a necessary part of knowing who we are as individuals. We made the mistake of getting too tangled up in each other to live a free life.
So what I first saw as suffering was just the sting of change and letting go. Budda is so right about attachment being the root of our perception of suffering. Because when I’m real with myself I know that nothing is permanent so why fret over change. Smile at it and feel it.
Anyway she said that I’m the only person she wants to live with so I’m not sure where we go from here. I do know that I am not going to create expectations. That’s the attachment web weaving all over again.
My point is that when she said she couldn’t give me what I want from her and she needed to have some time alone I could have taken that as rejection but I found out that I love her unconditionally and was able to let her go because I KNOW she needs to find her own way. Perception again. Over the months I think this letting go has been very attractive to her. Funny how that happens. We may just be friends. I may meet a woman who I connect with on a more intimate level. In the meantime I asked if she wants a divorce and she said of course not. Lol. I know that I need to live my life and know myself. Everything else is icing on the cake.
Sorry that I’m rambling. Again. Your posts do that to me as the feelings you open are so universal.
The big thing that I see with your situation here is that you are the one initiating a rejection and that the pain you’re anticipating is his Reaction to that. Yes it will hurt but if he’s paid attention and knows you then he will understand that you need to feel free. We all do. Nothing is more important. Anger or resentment over your life direction isn’t love. It’s conditional love. ‘I’ll love you until you decide you don’t want to be my girlfriend anymore and then I will abruptly stop’ That’s kind of crazy, isn’t it?
I want a healthy relationship too and I will not have one at the expense of losing my sense of freedom. That’s been the gift that my wife gave to us both. I’m proud of her for finding the strength to admit to herself that it was time to change.
I hope your BF can find the maturity to feel the same way about you. You expressed yourself beautifully here and I have no doubt that you will find the courage to do that again with him.
Any man would be lucky to have such an intelligent woman as a partner. Remember that in case his reaction becomes personal. ie, not respecting you.
Alsoly (my granddaughters word which is also and actually) remember that while the pain of change will open your heart to feeling those intense emotions, that they can go hand in hand with the equally intense feeling of knowing that you are alive and can love and take care of yourself.
Sometimes I think philosophy should have just stopped with Socrates: know thyself.
That’s the end of suffering right there when we actually look at what matters. Our awareness. Authentic self if you like. That’s where I feel real and everything else is just thoughts.
Thank-you for the link to the podcast! I like what they said about negative emotions aren't necessary negative. I think I need to stop seeing all those HUGE negative emotions I talked about as negative. They're all emotions and I'm slowly learning to be okay with them. Thanks for noticing how more willing I am to put myself into a vulnerable place compared to 6 months ago! When I think about how back then I was constantly scheming and trying to read his mind to arrange things to happen a certain and freaking out because they never did, I can tell you there was no way in hell I was even able to merely think of opening up my heart. I'm feeling stronger now, and so much of that is thanks to you, urbangardener, mirandac, lavender80, adelyn, salina, finally, bobinmain, and everyone else here who has helped me. I'm in a better position to lay my heart down, let go of the outcome, and hopefully be all right with undergoing huge body emotions.
You asked, "Per the talk, what would happen if you just did what you needed each day and let go of control of the rest?" I am kind of doing that and I am getting really good at doing things that fulfill me on my own, but do feel neglected. I don't want a partnership where I'm almost always alone doing things I love and we only talk about superficial things for say, half an hour a day. I feel like he needs to know that as my partner and hopefully one day I can talk to him about that. In the meantime, I am going to work on being direct and from the heart in small doses and not trying to control an outcome. It won't be easy!
BTW, I'm glad to see that you're being Very Careful Emotional Boundaries and making Reducing Stress a priority. Just because you've learned that you can't control anything doesn't mean you don't have a choice and you're making good decisions :)
I'm glad you had such a good literary education experience! It's a shame we don't make students memorize poetry and great lines anymore. There are times in life when those lines will pop up to the mind during a situation and it's amazing how much comfort they can provide.
That's an interesting you wrote that what you imagine to be lacking is right in front of you waiting to be picked up. Do you know what it is that you're lacking and is there something that's stopping you from picking it up? It feels similar to my case, where I feeling neglected and uncared for in this relationship, and the solution is right in front of me: tell him. I know the thing that's stopping me is that I want a certain outcome (i.e. AS LITTLE PAIN AND DISCOMFORT AS POSSIBLE) and I'm still trying to figure out how to say things to him and arrange the time and place, etc. to get that outcome. Eventually, I'm just going to have to learn to let things go, talk, and deal with whatever happens.
It sounds like this time apart has been very beneficial to both you and your wife. I hope you guys can figure things out, but it sounds like you've grown to know yourself better and are more comfortable with being authentic. It sounds like whatever happens, you'll going to be happy :)
"The big thing that I see with your situation here is that you are the one initiating a rejection and that the pain you’re anticipating is his Reaction to that."
Well, the initiating of a rejection on my part will happen after a rejection on his part. My plan right now is to talk to him to let him know how I really feel and ask him to work with me on making this relationship something other than we spend all our time apart and only talk about superficial stuff for like half an hour a day. Based on how my previous attempts to talk to him went, I don't see that going very well, and if that's the case, I'm going to have to initiate a rejection for good, and oh man, I am not looking forward to that.
I should have mentioned in Matt Kahn's talk about how we can obsess with "God, I hope ______________ doesn't happen," he also then teaches about how to change the talk to, "Despite my ______________, it is the will of my heart to remain open." So whatever happen with this talk, if it happens, I'm going to remind myself that it is the will of my heart to remain open.
I am effected by the moon phases Big Time, plus the bp and emphatic intuitive stuff really can get my psychic balance totally Out Of Whack! hence the need for strong emotional boundaries because 'I feel negative energy'... when mixed with my own negative thinking, well that's a double whammy!
Sometimes, with the world as it is presenting today I don't even think I have a choice with 'the world outside of my home'....just coming from my own little corner to try and make a difference...driving down the road, yes I'm still a rocker at 66...I hold my hand outside the window in a peace symbol...cause I just don't know what to do or how to help...I feel overwhelmed with the pain. Or I can see, hear and smile behind a mask...my eyes can show my smile these days...my mouth is covered, so I can listen with ears and eyes, slower to speak...just a couple of ways I'm using to 'get out of my head' to see t he larger picture of my world.
This lady, I jsut Love Her....very fisty, medical intuitive and have been following her for almost half my life time....this to me is one of her most powerful teachings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KysuBl2m_w.,..many books many videos, and recently she has started to do a weekly video...very short but right in the moment to help with healing the pain of this time and to support moving forward.
In time, you will come to a place of choice and decision, and perhaps a place of no control...it's All Good...Everything is a learning lesson, the hard stinky stuff, well those that occur are probably the most profound changers of our lives. So I guess being stuck for so many years, I'm asking myself, as you and everyone on ds with a question about how to move on and live their best life....so if there might not be control, there might not be choice moving forward, we Definitely do have the ability to make a Decision About Our Own Behavior....no one has control or choice of our mind or body.
I'm a huge politics and news junkies, but luckily I have many other hobbies and interests that I can indulge in to take a break from all the negativity in the world. I love going for walks and fixing healthy meals and exercising and watching thunderstorms and books. I wish I had someone who I could go on walks and watch thunderstorms with though. It seems I've been alone most of my life, even with my partner. You're right, in time, I will come to a place of choice and decision. I hope I can make the right decision, and leave the outcome to the universe.
The best part of my separation time with my wife is that we talk (FaceTime) everyday and I am slowly learning how to just accept who and where I am in that moment. She wants me to be be open it’s me resisting that creates the perception of being lonely. Pretty crazy right? But I know you relate because really we’re the same. All of us I mean. The human experience is simply retold over and over again with each life. Like you said: pain should be bringing us together. I need to open my heart so that miracle can take place.
This is partly what I was thinking when I said it is right in front of me. Surrender to being open with another. ‘When two or more come together in my name, there ‘’I’’ am.’ The authentic self.
The other part of the same puzzle is the fact that my essential nature is one of consciousness. Not the jumble of thoughts that I’think’ is me but the essence of me that sees all the thoughts and indoctrinated beliefs and understands that I am more than that. Be here now is the key to this essential being. Not yesterday or Friday after next. Right now!! The only place where I can truly exist. I have been coming back to this place for a few years and it’s becoming a little easier each time.
This is where I’m free. That’s what is always right in front of me waiting to be picked up. Breathe and you are alive. So simple, such the real nature of us yet so hard to find through our cloudy over worked brains. Because I’ve spent my whole life trying to live and find truth and happiness in my mind when the only way to be happy is to let all that mind clutter go and be real in this moment. Platos cave parable right? I’ve been staring at the damm stone wall in front of me ‘thinking’ I’ve been watching the sunset when all I have to do is turn around and BE with it. No imaging it like some holographic illusion, truly experience it now. And then let it fade away and perhaps if I’m lucky experience it again.
Ok so maybe philosophy should have ended with Plato:) because how many versions do we need to tell us that we can’t think our way home. We need to breathe and BE home in our true self. This is where it doesn’t really matter if I live with my wife or we just meet up for a kayak trip or a picnic and go our separate way. Because living in the moment doesn’t require attachment or expectation.
K. I’m going to stop here:) before I get carried away lol
I’m reminding myself that even if the worst thing happens when I talk to him, that he stomps on my heart, there is beauty in that. For the first time I’ve allowed myself to be truly vulnerable and expose my heart and it got ravaged one way or another, and if I still survive and not lose my humanity, that’s great beauty and art, This post is me reminding myself of that. I’m not trying to add more to the fear to avoid the confrontation. I’m giving myself more reason to do so by reminding myself that pain has its own rewards. I hope that makes more sense. This post isn’t about avoiding honesty and vulnerability . It’s about embracing them and embracing the outcomes even if they are super painful and angsty. It’s going to take me time for my HIGH ANXIETY and DEATHLY FEAR to be able to embrace them but for both myself and my partner, I badly want to be able to.
I can’t imagine how you managed to find the courage to do what was right for you and your relationship with your ex. I have so much respect for you. You have no idea how much I admire you for overcoming your fears. Thank you for giving me some of your courage :)
You’re right U.G., I’ve repeated the lesson enough. Time to go through. Leap and a net will appear. Or I’ll break my leg and I’ll still be alive:)
@cronic, I watched a thunder and lightning storm approaching from a high place this evening. Alone, then walked till dark. I was at peace. Yes, I would have liked someone to have shared it with but that will come. There’s that lack..... or my perception. It was a beautiful, real experience and now I wonder if anything could have made it better. Different not better. I’m ready for different, You?
I do feel more ready for it now, more brave and willing. It's most likely going to hurt like hell and I'm going to make a mess out of it (the relationship coach is helping A LOT though), but I'm definitely more willing to put my heart out there.
FAN - That was lovely what you wrote about the thunderstorm. Im glad you're ready for different. I will be eventually.
This is the mistake I’ve made in the past with my marriage. Fall into a rut and seemingly all of a sudden the communication is suffering. The last few years we’ve been doing better by talking more and spending time together. We’re best friends yet our intimacy is not what I’d like. I know that she’s going through a transition time so I don’t push it. However I would like to get back the lost kissing. Not when I pick her up at the airport though lol. (No pda, her thing) Slow steps. If she can’t enjoy a kiss then we’ll both see the resistance. It wouldn’t have to be a big talk because we’re already aware of it.
The talk about the state of the relationship became smaller.
I understand that you’re anxious (angsty :)
but this approach may serve your needs best. As you’re heading out for a walk ask for some company. No, ask the next time and the next. If a pattern builds up then you’ll both see it. I love to cook healthy meals too. Do you ask him for help or company while you’re in the kitchen? Instead of ramping up for a talk about the relationship put little efforts into Showing him the relationship.
This is my intention; to open up an ongoing dialogue instead of one big, all or nothing affair. I’m sure you know the truth of this but thought a reminder might help.
Make small the big
Seems like taking a little time to give him the chance to see that things should be different will ease the reaction to a confrontation. Which is usually based on ego and defense mode. Avoid cornering an animal that you want to help.
Unfortunately, a conversation is the only way I can see of breaking through the walls that were set up. Even suggesting to him because I noticed he liked a certain drink, hey would you like me to get you this drink while I'm out shopping, can lead him to growling because I guess he feels like I'm fussing over him, and he doesn't want to be fussed over. He's been shooting down most efforts and attempts on my part to engage in any manner. My coach made a good point which is he is not in a good place and therefore he will not be in the mood to spend time or listen to me. So my priorities have changed from trying to see if he could spend more time with me to trying to see if he could open up and tell me how he feels. If he can't, tough decisions will have to be made.
Another "unfortunately", my coach actually had to drop me yesterday because their policy about coaching during dangerous situations and there was some concern that my situation could be unsafe for my mental or physical well-being. (Don't worry, I'm not in any immediate danger, and if I feel any danger, I won't take any risk.) That sucked, but she gave me a lot of good advice before this happened. I'm feeling more confident in what I want to say to him now. I may not get to say it. He may shut it down (and I KNOW not to push things with him) but if that's what happens, well, I'll let that guide me on where to go from here.